Colgan
 

A lot of the guys I have been flying with are most certain that Colgan will not make it as an airline much past the end of the year. Regardless of if this is true or not, I am very sorry for all those employed and my thoughts are with you and your families.

My question is, why would they say this? They have referenced TWA and the flight 800 crash saying that ended TWA. If Colgan say did go out of business, what do you all think would happen to the industry as a whole? Who would get their flying, airplanes, and pilots?

I am not trying to start a Colgan bashing thread. I just want a few other opinions then the older type captains that I have been flying with.

Thanks!

I highly doubt they will go out of business, however, if they get enough bad press they may change the name of the company. i.e. valuejet -> airtran

Pinnacle OWNs Colgan...might even be in their interest to merge the two.... even with all the pitfalls that entails.

Keep in mind that the TWA crash was a TWA mainline accident. People flying on colgan think they are flying Airways, United, Continental. If anyone is gonna hurt its continental especially after they signed a contract with Colgan for 15 more Q's next year. Colgan has gotten its fair share of flak the past few days especially with another Q losing a wheel on landing at BUF.

I agree with Herc here that a merger of Colgan and Pinnacle is more likely. Most of the traveling public doesn't know that Pinnacle owns colgan or even know who Pinnacle is. Essentially, it would allow Pinnacle to retain control of the assets and exert more control of its pilot groups by pitting them against each other in a seniority list integration.

Yeah, that would make sense to merge the two. But with the additional 15 Q's coming in next year, do you think Pinnacle will cancel those or find another contract carrier to fly those for them because I assume the FAA is questioning Colgan's ability to fly the Q?

its all speculation and this industry can change at the drop of a hat. no one knows for sure.

thats what we have been hearing on this side of the fence. A lot of us dont think the colgan name will survive and will pretty much be merged in with pinnacle. It was probably in the works before the accident. they have been moving all of the colgan employees from VA to memphis. Pretty soon all of the corporate stuff on the colgan side will be in memphis. and with colgan voting in alpa i would pretty much say its a done deal.

Are you serious man? First, how is Pinnacle Corp going to find another carrier to fly the Q's? Do you think they will just say "hey ASA you want some Q's to fly for us.?"

Second you sound like the media when you say the FAA is questioning Colgan's ability to fly the Q. They were the brainchildren who approved the training in the first place and signed it off. The FAA is just like everyone else right now and is in butt saving mode for the public. The FAA is influenced by lobbyists from places like the RAA, it is all a game with them.

So have you asked the pilots you are flying with why Comair did not go out of business when they had the accident in Lexington? Afterall, they took of the wrong runway, it does not get more F'd up than that.

Step back and look at this from a business standpoint, not a reactive media standpoint. In no time people will have moved on from this crash as they did with Comair almost 3 years ago. I would guess a name change for Colgan and the eventual merger with the Pncl pilots in the future...all great things for both groups.

Im done with the Colgan name anyway, the Colgan's are gone so lets move on and this is the perferct opportunity to do that.

And as far as the guy who mentioned AirTran...100% correct. That was a branded outfit who changed their name after a horrible accident and look at AirTran now, passengers have no idea of who Valuejet is or was.

I agree with the juice

I have a feeling that in the short term at least, maybe long term, all of our lives are going to become much more difficult regardless of where we work. Commuting, checkrides, hiring, etc. pretty much every aspect of this job is going to become more of a pain in the a$$ than it already is.

Airtran is not Valuejet. The two companies merged but other than staffing and routes, nothing else remained.

Technically you a correct, it was a merger. But it was simply a way for ValueJet to change face by merging with the smaller AirTran. But dont kid yourself by thinking the merger was nothing more than a name change due to bad publicity.

It was more than that. Airtran was already an airline before they merged with Valuejet.

Valuejet had many restrictios on its certificate after the everglades accident. By purchasing Air-Tran and turning in the Valuejet certificate basically they got oout of all of the restrictions placed upon it by the FAA. It was basically a BIG loophole......

i agree w bass slayer

simple... in most cpa's with airlines there are catch all phrases that allow the main company to ditch the contract in the event of "adverse" conditions. The PR Cluster that is colgan right now could very well give CAL all it needs to re-evaluate your companies contract. Those airplanes arent on property yet and stranger things have happened.

I'd hate to break it to you but your company is under a lot more scrutiny then just the media. How did pilots get "screened" and yet the company didnt know that he failed a bunch of check rides? how does a company justify paying a pilot in the ny or washington dc area under 20 grand a year? why is that pilot willing to give away their skills for practically free? are they that bad of a pilot? your maintenance issues alone have brought you into the FAA's sights.... million questions and one answer. Colgan is a Horrible company. It would be a good thing if they went out of business.

Newark, as a Colgan employee I dislike the company as much as you do. However, is a measly 5,000-10,000 more a year that you guys make really that much of a difference? I'm living in Hartford which is considerably cheaper than NY or DC. My family still needs about 80,000 a year just to break even with our loans and the cost of living.

All regional airlines are crap. Lets focus our power on the man, not each other. That goes for the mainline guys also. Personally, I'm seriously about 5 seconds away from pulling a "John Galt" on this whole industry. It's really not worth it.

jg the only thing you'll stop is the motor on your "dash," until the next guy comes around. oohh and you'd stop that pay check ... SEE YA !!! Anything in newark blows...including the next guy.;)

You are correct. NewarkBlows is and has always been anti Colgan because he works for the coolest airline around. I do not bother responding to him because it is not worth the headache. Again, he works for a cool airline who would love nothing more than CAL to decide to drop the Q's for the gas sucking RJ's (check out how much oil has gone up the last 3 months).

Look at his previous posts and it is all anti-everyone. Colgan sucks, GS sucks, GL sucks, Republic sucks, everyone sucks. He is a negative person, even his screen name is negative.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_G--MKSZpj_...er+griffin.jpg go on.....

I think it would be wise to get rid of the Colgan brand...I was on elevator at the hotel today, and one of the riders noticed my badge. She remarked that I worked the airline that had the crash, and would never fly on "my" airline. I was obviously very embarassed, and to be honest a little hurt by this encounter. However, it illustrated to me loud and clear that the Colgan brand needs to go. In particular the hedious ( in my opinion ) so-called, "Captain America" paintjob. It isn't so much that I dislike the livery, but almost every SAAB painted in this livery looks terrible due to the age and upkeep on these airplanes. Add some "blue juice" streaked down the side, and I want to put a bag over my head before I walk in the terminal.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

I agree, I would love to see a name change but the company can not do it too quickly because the new name would make news as well.

As far as the Captain America paint jobs they need to get rid of those if for nothing else than just the fact "Colgan Air" is posted across the sides of them. Since there are few Colgans at Colgan and only 1 with any pull I do not see the reason to keep the name.

Guys, I think you're overreacting a little bit. Countless airlines have had terrible accidents in the past and haven't changed names or gone out of business. And lets not forget you're owned by Pinnacle, home of the most embarressing accident in the history of this biz flight 3701. (that's my opinion anyway)

Keep in mind it's not just Colgan that is being scrutinized by the public. All regionals are getting these "regionals are unsafe" comments. There's not a trip that goes by that I don't hear something to that affect.

And how long do you think it will be before people will forget about this altogether? Ask some random people if they remember when 737's were falling out of the sky due to the rudder problem. They'll look at you cross-eyed and confused. Ask them about the MD-80's horizontal stab that malfunctioned and sent an Alaskan Airlines plane nose first into the ground. Ask them about Tenerife where a company check airman captain with thousands of hours of experience took off without a clearance and slammed into a Pam Am 747 creating, to date, the worst accident in our industry's history.

This too shall pass.... learn from it and fly safe

I believe it is Alaska Airlines....yeah, last time I checked it was Alaska cause I don't see an "Alaskan Airlines" written on the side of the plane.

So is it Deltan Airlines now or is it still Delta?

yeah whatever

The guy makes a good point and you jump on one error and then follow it up with another post? What's your issue?

5-10K is a TON of money

In a word? ABSOFREAKINGLUTELY!!! What would you do with an extra $1000 a month? Just looking at the pay scales here, and without knowing much about the highly desirable workrules at Colgan, I make just about double what a Colgan FO with the same seniority makes. But whats a few bones between friends:rolleyes:

Yes the "Captain America" paint jobs have always been nothing to be proud of. However, don't ever worry about what people think or say. A simple "whatever and have a nice day", always works for me.

Yeah, but it's still poop pay, a thousand extra a month still wouldn't be enough for me to stay in it. Express Jet is still just an undercutting regional taking away decent mainline jobs. Just like Colgan or any other regional. So yes, our pay is abhorred, but so is yours. That extra 1000 bucks a month isn't changing that fact which is the point I was trying to make.

Colgan has been taking the rap here, but it's really not the money, nor even the training. It's who's in the seat at any given time, and especially when things start to unravel. God knows that Fedex pilots are paid a very fair wage, but if they had carried pax the last several years, these highly trained (and paid) aviators would probably have killed a couple thousand people simply by the plethora of accidents on both their main and feeder lines. But for the grace...

Hide the badge dude until you need to show it, why do you walk around with your badge out in a hotel.

I am fairly certain you work for Piedmont and having Colgan go away is not going to save that many jobs for your company. Why don't you call a spade a spade and man up and say you want to see them out of business. You may yet get your wish.

First off, I wouldn't wish anyone out of business/job as I wouldn't want anyone to wish me out of a job. This industry is all about me myself and I instead of focusing on the big picture. We ALL need to stick together...not fly until we ALL get what we want.

Second, yes, I do work for Piedmont but I seriously doubt Piedmont will be getting much of their flying seeing as we are losing 7 more airplanes between September and December.

Thats the worst argument I've ever heard. A regional is a regional. I used to work for skywest and flew with plenty of fo's that left expressjet/coex for skywest. Does that make skywest better? Hell no. Get off the high horse, you fly for a regional that probably hired you when you had 500 hours or less. The money is crap for a reason. Its not a career its a stepping stone. Now back to the original thread.

Wow...800 Hours ...amazing...you high timer!!! I went from Colgan to CAL mainline in under 2 years..hired with CJC at 2300TT. I didn't have an in at CAL and they liked that I had flown a turboprop (SAAB).

I would never argue that ExpressJet is a bad operation because they are not. They offer a quality product to CAL. However, your argument doesn't hold water. I have listened to you bash Colgan for so long and it's really really getting old. Just pick yourself up tpersuit....do your job like a professional, forget about Colgan who obviously has not stolen your job.

If anything, you flying from EWR-OMA, you have stolen my job. How do you feel?

*Cue the "It's different" comeback. (It's always different with XJT)

Agreed... The I had "800" hours and held out for xjt... laughable.

Ok again tpersuit lets talk about holding out for a respected regional. Back in my time, regionals didn't make up what it does now. If we really want to talk how it should be then there should be a lot more boeing and airbus flying in the sky but no YOU held out for a more respected regional and but another erj in the sky. If you think you are helping the industry out I think you need to reconsider.

Bad spelling aside, some might make a case that a repo flight that killed only the arguably irresponsible pilots vs. other flights I'm not going to name that killed innocent passengers as well is slightly less embarrassing. Not trying to burn or defend anyone, but I'm just saying...