FO Pay Proposal
 

How's this for FO pay...

Federally mandated minimum pay scale to ensure pilots have adequate finances to avoid lifestyle stress and fatigue.

$42K (base military pay for the equivalent job at the O-2 paygrade, but without military bonuses or allowances). This would allow the pilot to get by just fine in middle America.


The pilot would then have the option of:

1) Live where he wants (within 4 hours flight time of his base) and commute, in which case he gets space positive to work...and duty starts at check-in for the commute. The pilot will need to non-rev home.

OR

2) Live in domicile...in this case he gets the federal civil service locality pay adjustment (based on $42K) for that area. This will ensure that he can afford an adequate lifestyle in domicile.

There would be no minimum for CA's...it would be the same as for FO's. The point here is not to create a mandated pilot pay-scale or break the bank at the regionals, but to ensure safety by preventing the very real finance-induced lifestyle stresses many regional pilots experience.

The fringe benefit would be the attraction of higher-quality pilots candidates to the industry...good for safety and operational efficiency.

Note that I am NOT advocating paying regional FO's the same as military officers, only using part of the military compensation package as a standard baseline. All you guys reading this from the sandbox can calm down ;)

The idea of a local COLA is a good one...

I think rickair7777 hit the nail on the head.

This thread began by asking for "realistic" ideas for pay. I think the military base pay idea is realistic and easy for people to wrap their heads around. It's fair.

I also think that rickair7777 gets at what the heart of our argument should be- It's not only about what's fair, it's about what's safe. Nobody outside this thread probably cares too much about what is "fair" for us, but they do care about what is safe for them. Pilots who are well rested and not stressing about where their next meal is coming from, or where they'll sleep that night, or if they'll get on a flight to make it to work, are safer pilots. Positive space flights to work, etc. are also exellent ideas.

Well put.......I think that such a corrupt industry as this one needs more government mandating to ensure safety. I think that something along those lines with an ATP would improve this industry. In addition I think the FAA should revisit 61.159 and make a requirement for time in appropriate class sought. Ie 500hrs Multi for a Multi ATP or something along those lines.

A life is not a life when litigation is involved. In wrongful death cases, a life is judged by its earning potential. Also, if I hard one person, there is only one case, if I hurt 100 people, there will be 100 cases.

So, more risk, more pay.

In my mind, probationary period would last until the end of IOE. Until that time, the candidate is NOT a fully qualified crew member. He/she requires a check airman, who is getting an override.

Point well taken.

Perhaps something more like $36,000 plus 50 cents per seat per hour for CA. For 75 hours per month, that yields:
19 Seats: $40.5k ($45 per hour)
34 Seats: $51k ($57 per hour)
50 Seats: $58K ($65 per hour)
70 Seats: $77.5k ($86 per hour)
100 Seats: $91k ($101 per hour -- Midwest 717 $82 -- AA MD80 $149 )
400 Seats: $216k ($240 per hour -- AA 777 $189-- CO Wide $180)

FO $24,000 plus 25 cents
19 Seats: $28k ($31 per hour)
34 Seats: $31.5k ($35 per hour)
50 Seats: $35.5K ($40 per hour)
70 Seats: $40k ($45 per hour)
100 Seats: $46.5k ($52 per hour -- Midwest 717 $41 -- AA MD80 $75)
400 Seats: $114k ($127 per hour -- AA $95 -- CO $75)

(AA and CO are second year pay)


Maybe something like that is a bit more realistic.

Guys, you're all smoking a pipe if you're talking about 60k or 80k a year to start as a regional FO. Yes, of course we all think that would be absolutely dandy.

But just think about it. As long as there are daddy's boys whose parents are willing to fork out 100k or so for their little precious to get fed through one of those bloody pilot factories and who don't care about making 15 grand a year as a first year FO because they still live with their parents, HOW CAN WE POSSIBLY EXPECT MORE MONEY?

Sadly, the fact remains that our job is still every little boy's dream, and there are throngs of people willing to live on food stamps for the privilege.

I think the only way we can hope to increase our pay is if the FAA cracks down on regional airlines because of the spate of accidents lately, and forces them to hire pilots with higher minimum experience. Maybe then we'll be able to command higher wages. We can hope at least??

It should be set at the exact minimum price that will attract the desired talent. You guys seem to have all been willing to take the jobs at the rates being offered, so the rates must be as good or better than they need to be.

I was enticed by things other than pay. Plus I was led to believe that my pay would quickly increase. I left 2 regional jobs when my expectations weren't met.

In 1998 my starting pay was low, but upgrades were fast (2 years or so). I also lived 20 minutes from my domicile. In 2002 I was displaced, and in 2003 I down-graded. My expectations were no longer being met and in 2004 I left.

In 2008 I was garenteed choice of domicile and was told movement would be quick. The pay sucked, but quality of life issues looked ok (minimum time on reserve, short commute, a decent line quickly). When the writing was on the wall for displacement, I left.

So, I've walked twice. I also voted, and lobbied hard, to strike at my first job. I certainly wouldn't count myself as a person who is willing to work for any amount. I know I'm worth more.

Everyone should set their own bar. Don't expect the unions to do it for you. We need to pressure the unions, politicians, the public and anyone who will listen. And we should be willing to walk the walk.

I would also add that the talent level the public desires and the "desired talent" of airline management are often two different things. Which is why I believe that now is the time to push for better F.O./starting pay and work conditions.

Plus, it's not just about what pilots are willing to fly for at present. It's about what future pilots will get. I'm sure for most pilots on this thread it's water under the bridge. I suspect that most didn't think much about starting pay when they were hired. I suspect that most didn't expect to be F.O.s for very long either. I suspect that most would think twice about going down this path if they had to do it over again, however. So I think that future pilots should be thankful that these guys are trying to at least fix these issues in hind sight.

Anyway, I reject the argument that pilots curently get paid what they're worth, or that their talent level=their pay level. Most are caught between a rock and a hard place by events out of their control.

I have respect for those who quit or fight. I have no respect for those bottom feeders who are happy to resign themselves that they must be worth what they're paid because the market has spoken.

Pilots aren't commodities. They're the intregal part of a safe flight and should be compensated as such.

No more 18-20 year period to max pay. 12 years max. First officers make % of same year captain: 60-65%. Also pay continues to increase to year 12 for first officers. No more of this cap at year 3-5.