New Pinnacle Pass program
 

Parents have to use ZEd fares
No Buddy Passes
No registered travel companions
For the first time in my 5 year career, I am thinking about a career change.

Wow...that sux, but is this all part of a negotiating tactic?

I know that feeling. I reached my lowest low this year. I had to apply for section 8 housing. I am so embarrased to walk through my new apartment complex with my uniform on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1tMr...eature=related

Jeeeeezus y'all got hosed in that integration :mad:

i am just glad this came out before we had signed a contract. ANY contract that is put before me better have the same flight benefits that the other dci carriers get or it will get a no vote from me.

See that is the point. They are going to make this program uniform among all wholly-owned and non-wholly owned carriers. What it does is makes a regional job just a bit more cruddy so people WILL NOT make it a career.
It is all part of their plan. They want to reduce costs, and KNOW it is next to impossible to get concessions out of any labor group!

And dont forget we lose boarding priority. All of the "wholly owned" will travel on a higher priority than us. Life just got a whole lot harder for all of our commuters.

Well even though im thinking about it, i still have some motivation to see this fight through with these negotiations. But I now have to tell my parents that our family trip to Madrid this august just got a lot harder and more expensive.

It's amazing that airplanes just break at outstations isn't it?

Don't forget that it includes our airplanes as well. You, an employee of Pinnacle, may very well be bumped off of Pinnacle airplane by a Delta ramper or a pilot from another carrier.

Wasn't there a clause in the contract that said something to the effect of "maintaining status quo" for benefits that were not specifically defined in the contract. A few years back they tried to start charging us for something and the Union was able to shoot it down based on that clause. Can anyone refresh my memory.
Regards

Unfortunately, our travel benefits are negotiated outside of our CBA and the union can do little to bargain with the company over them. If the company decides to alter our agreement (as they in effect have by implementing the Delta benefits over established NW ones) there is little recourse. With that said, it would be interesting to see if the Union tells management that there will be a "no" vote on a new TA if the benefits do not change for the better.

I finally believe we might be entering end game negotiations. Seeing management pull a stunt like this shows they might still have a couple cards to play but i firmly believe that this is going to go right down to either a last minute deal or a strike. Now the question is, will we ever get the right to do that by the NMB?

ACL65 - the new PCL pass policy they're talking about is totally different than what other DCI carriers get. For Mesaba/Compass our benefits are overall actually getting better. Comair guys are complaining about what they've got because they lose boarding priority... but the people truly getting hosed are the PCL folks. So... not sure if you're on the mark with your theory.

Hopefully Uncle Phil is doing something about this. This whole pass thing will cause major issues.

Hopefully a lot of the FA's will quit. However, the nickel will have hard time recruiting any new 'talent'.I can't figure out who is in charge of hiring all these stunners we have...:eek:

WHOAAAA! You guys got one of the biggest shafts I've ever seen in this business. Comair thought they had it bad, DAYYYAMMM!

This issue is about to become explosive on many levels...

And it will create an immediate violation of contract section 26.d which states that parents, spouses, and eligible dependents fly free on all company-operated flights...they will have to figure out a way to either a) let us list our parents on 9E-operated flights only (sounds like a nightmare), or b) reimburse us for ZED fares (a major pain in the arse).

In addition, let us not forget ZED fares will all be at the HIGH level...they are currently at the MEDIUM level for parents on Delta....so it will be MORE expensive for our parents to fly on Delta than it was pre-merger...no joke...from the pass bureau directly...

Thanks for playing Pinnacle, you probably just lost my vote for any TA you put in front of me unless it is absolutely industry LEADING...I would rather just wait for the NMB to release us at this point and get them by the family jewels so we can push for no less than any other non-wholly owned DCI feeder...

Pinnacle is really good at irritating us about stuff that doesn't matter, but I think they might have miscalculated this one...if everything the pass travel folks have said in both written and phone communications turns out to be true, it will push many pilots who walked the line OVER the line and into the mindset of "burn this place down." I am one of those people...I did my job, I worked hard, I didn't call in sick unless I really was, I got there early, I kept up on my revisions, I tried to make it a better place...but this pass travel thing is like spilling a beer on a guy's girlfriend and refusing to apologize...

taking travel away from pilots and their families is a slap in the face...we're in the transportation business for crying out loud...

If any Pinnacle shareholders are reading this, your ignorant managment might have just axed any chance of getting an industry average TA that would've helped the company's stock value and secured flying for the future...instead, your management (if all of this pans out) might have just crossed the line and led us down a path to release and a strike...because many of us are now going to make them sell the house and give us all the money, or burn the house down...way to go management...hope you saved a nickel...

Pinnacle management doesn't care what pilots think or how angry they are. It's deliberate and calculated. All part of a demoralization campaign that conditions the employees that they're nothing better than day-labor and will take anything management forces down their throats.

All management cares about is you show up for work. And we all know that you will. So to all you really angry pilots . . . are you going to do something about it, or just do the usual and sulk away throw a tantrum in private (for your $30k a year "professional" compensation)?

I bet Uncle Phil in his Cronies get buddy passes/family/positive spaces...

The losses if Pinnacle shuts down will offset the taxes on profits from the other companies.

The big fat bonuses Phil handed out up and down the executive suites last year will buy a lot of Zed fares.

Here's how this one will play out. The pilots will **** and moan, grab their pitch forks and torches. But in the end, they will just take in in as a#$ like they always do.

That's exactly right. Pilots will come to these message boards, writing the biggest insulting words they could find and then when they go to work will tell their peers how bold and destructive they are going to be and how they are not going to take it anymore and from now on a new era will start.

And then.... a lowly gate agent will come down the jet bridge and say, oh no jumpseaters..... The door will get closed and once again the airline will have it their way.

Or some other day, we will be waiting on the curb for 20-40 minutes for the shuttle van and pilots will be syaing to the FA how this is not in the contract and we should all be taking cabs and expensing it to the company, but once again everyone will be a coward and nothing will be done and we will sit there with a thumb up our a**.

So is the life of labor. They call it "labor" for a reason.

Thats exactly right. The hotel van is a good example. There is always alot of tough talk about calling a cab, but most people never do it.

There is also alot of tough talk about "flying the contract" and "writing everything up", and refusing JM's and extentions, and calling in sick or fatigued, or quitting the company, or getting out of the industry.

But it rarely happens.

Then when there is a displacement, or critically short staffing, there is alot of talk about not picking up open time, but tons of pilots do it anyway.

But in the end with a castrated union, and a pilot group that suffers from Stockholm Syndrome, there isn't much that can be done.

When there is no contract for years upon years you don't

-Pick up open time
-Pick up the phone on your days off
-Avoid fatigue calls even after a bone crushing week of reduced rest or high speeds
-Sign anything management offers you unless its a contract
-Agree to do ANYTHING outside the contract

You do

-fly the contract
-fly safe
-be meticulous with writeups (as you should anyways)

The world won't end if

- a fatigue call is made
-a sick day is taken
-A delay is taken
-A taxi is called when the van driver is MIA

Its pitiful that a pilot group has been this long without a contract. Flying for a Regional is not all there is to life, if you get fired because you are flying the contract... its not the end of the world

[quote=nicholasblonde;619112]

Thanks for playing Pinnacle, you probably just lost my vote for any TA you put in front of me unless it is absolutely industry LEADING...I would rather just wait for the NMB to release us at this point and get them by the family jewels so we can push for no less than any other non-wholly owned DCI feeder...



That'd be about where I am, too.......I don't think I could possibly have any kind of 'yes' vote in me at this point.....

Do they still want us to pay $200+ for our families per year for this?

NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Nail on the head.

Which is why I believe this entire profession has already done itself in. An entire generation of real professionals are retiring from the majors just to be replaced by us... The conditioned subserviant regional airline pilots of America.

I'm optimistic about the under-30s generation. Spoiled generations like ours typically get the most upset and act out the most when you try to take our stuff away.

I honestly feel like it's the mid-30s to 40s aged guys that are rolling over and dying about everything-- they're the ones who are the most defeatist.

One common thread among the baby boomer old schoolers and us young folks is that we were both raised in post-war economic booms (WWII and the Cold War)...we were raised in eras of great technological advancement and progress, and believe that anything is possible as long as you work hard enough or study hard enough, or both....

Even the guys who went to Jet U seem to be more willing to do something about the industry than the pessimistic "I had my ATP when I got hired and I am lucky to have my job" generation.

Who will fight more--the generation of entitlement who has never heard the words "no," or the generation who "earned it" but considers themselves "lucky to be here?"

Rant on, pessimist Gen Xers!!!;)

I'll bite blondie :)

1....sounds like a 2 year old in a grocery store throwing a tantrum when his mom won't buy him gummy bears.

2. I'm 35 and i'll be the first to STFD. And most of my 30 + friends are the same. We have learned there are ways to get things we want besides whining on an anon internet board or *****ing in the cockpit to your FO/CA. Join the union, etc. there are other ways to focus your energy. In general, I've found that guys who whine and b*tch on message boards or in the cocoon of the cockpit are the guys least willing to join/help out the union or fellow pilots. US "X'ers" are silent but deadly, not just rolling over. Who wins the bar fight....the guy who makes alot of noise and gets his arse kicked or the guy who uses mind control/psychology and goes home with the bully's girl? See FNFAL's post for ways to help our cause without *****ing and whining all about it. I have seen 2 of our most vocal STFD'ers pick up open time and fly while sick. And answer their phone in the hopes of that 125% jr man call. Even had one just a few days ago help the understaffed ramp unload/load bags at the outstation so HE could try to get us out ON TIME. and he was early 20's.

3. work hard or study hard or buy your way into a job.

4. Jet U etc....I can buy my way into another job if we STFD.
Those with ATP already.....it took us alot of hard work to get this job, and it will take an equal amount of hard work to get another job if we STFD. Doing something about the industry.....it can be said the program guys/low time gen Y'ers are the ones who changed the industry for the worse, and they should be the ones that should be trying to change it for the better. It's not my fault they spent tens of thousands to chase quick PIC time and got stuck in a rut.

5. I know I always fight harder for something that I earned, rather than something that I felt I was entitled to and didn't hear the words no for.

disclaimer.....all these views arent necessarily the way I personally feel and isn't meant to bash low timers/program guys, just giving the poster possible answers to the questions he posed.

deleted duplicate..............

Please email Rep R.M. with your opposition to this new proposed policy. We are putting something together so that managment has a clear understanding of just how many pilots are not happy about these travel benefits. It will be a clear message at the next round of negotiations. We need the emails by Thursday.

In Unity

the revenge of the taco just kicked in and i will be having a wojo Tyler moment that will make it difficult for me to fly an airplane unless they insult a lav in the cockpit of that CRJ. Otherwise I will be home recovering. How about 20% eat those delicious taco's in one day??

Its Official, the new pass travel rules are out. I hope this is the fire that ignites and unify's our pilot group to the boiling point. Fly safe out there guys. Fly safe.........

Or... we'll be the highest on-time airline with the nation's lowest CRJ payrate/work rules for the bajillionth financial quarter...

I'm gonna go with my guess, not yours.

"Ahh crap why don't we have the load slip yet???? We only have 5 more minutes until block-out! OH MY GOD ITS THE END OF THE FREAGIN' WORLD!!!! WHAT WILL I SAY IF I GET A CALL ABOUT THIS???"

"Hmm gee, lets just wait until we get back to MEM/DTW/MSP/IND/ATL before we write this up.... I wouldn't want to cause a big delay!"

"Man I hate the company blah blah blah blah.... Oh I got 90 credit this month. Had 75 hours but I picked up some GREAT trips in open time."

Please PCL pilots... grow a pair.... I swear to the freagin' Flying Spaghetti Monster some of you are the most manipulated easy to control easily intimidated yet company complaining wimps I have ever come across.

Gee, hey I know... Since I'm too much of a moron to actually fly/act/operate professionally (which is all you have to do) I will just fly my airplane like a child, make every takeoff full power, and run the APU all the time. Wow, you sure are showing them. That is... of course... until you hear about someone having a carpet dance over doing one of those things... then you'll find something else that seems hidden to mgmt, equally pointlessly wasteful, and immature to show your defiance.

gaaa... can't wait to move on from this PFTer owned/operated nightmare of a Mickey Mouse airline.

Not sure who they is nor what good insulting a lav would do for you, but I guess if that's what gets you through your day.....
If you were referring to management I'd bet it would be funnier having them on the jumpseat insulting themselves instead of the lav. I mean what's the worst the lav did to you? Overfill on your pants when a rampie was refilling the blue juice?

Who will truly be "fit to fly" under the FAA definition after we a) lose our travel benefits and (if) b) contract negotiations end without a TA AGAIN on June 9th???

I don't know a single person at this company who will be psychologically or physically fit to fly if we simultaneously get hosed once again at the negotiating table AND lose our travel benefits at the same time...

When was the last time your read the writing (and the regs) on the back of your medical?

If you haven't done so recently, I highly suggest you do so, and I highly suggest you consider your fitness to fly if/when our benefits are pulled and if/when we don't get a TA this time.

This is not some bs exaggeration...most of us will truly be too angry to fly if what I think is going to happen actually happens bewteen now and the 23rd (pass travel & negotiations falling again)...leave that out of the cockpit and do the professional thing and call-in if you are so mad at the company that your ability to operate safely is in question.

For those who don't know, here's the new travel program for Pinnacle:
(I cannot believe we are now being reprimanded for exceeding the 3 'travel days'!!!)
Delta and Northwest will launch their integrated travel program on June 23, 2009.
Annual Activation Fee
In order to utilize your pass travel privileges, you must pay an Annual Activation Fee. A single $50 fee covers you and your eligible pass riders (Employee, Spouse, Domestic Partner & Dependents).The annual activation fee is paid by credit or debit card on-line via Delta�s TravelNet program. (Instructions for TravelNet are explained later under Using Your Travel.)

• The activation fee is paid annually based on the employee�s anniversary date with Pinnacle Airlines. Example: You have a hire date of March 1, 2009. You would like to travel after June 23, 2009 therefore you would pay your activation fee on or after June 23. After your anniversary date next year, March 1, 2010, you will be required to pay the activation fee again to continue pass travel privilege. The activation fee will not be prorated.
• The activation fee is nonrefundable, even if the Primary Pass Rider loses eligibility before non-revenue leisure travel has been used.
• The activation fee is not required for company business travel

Jump-seating - The Delta system will require you to pay the activation fee to flow back to a cabin seat. If you are seated in the cockpit, you will not be required to pay the activation fee. If you are seated in a cabin seat, normal non-revenue policy will apply. This includes jump-seat travel on Northwest, Delta and all connection carriers.

Eligible Pass Riders
As an active Pinnacle employee, you are considered the Primary Pass Rider for pass travel privileges. You will have a Primary Pass Rider (PPR) number assigned to you. The PPR number is a 9 digit number that will start with 3500 then your 5 digit Pinnacle employee number. If your Pinnacle employee number only has 4 digits, add a leading zero. If your Pinnacle employee number has only 3 digits add 2 leading zeros. You will need the PPR number to list on any flight within the Delta or Northwest system and to access Delta�s TravelNet self-service application. Instructions for TravelNet are explained later under the Using Your Travel section. The new travel program will offer travel to certain members of your family after paying a $50 activation fee. These family members include:

• Spouse
• Domestic Partner (Same or opposite gender). The domestic partner will be required to pay a yield fare to travel. (Explained later under domestic partner)
• Minor dependent children under age 19
• Dependent children age 19 up to age 23 are eligible if they have never been married and are full time students. Once a dependent turns 23, the dependent will no longer be eligible for pass travel as a dependent. Dependents that are currently 23 years of age will no longer have travel privileges effective June 23. This includes all travel within NWA and Delta systems.

Domestic travel for Employee/Spouse/Dependent
The employee, spouse and dependents will be allowed unlimited free travel in coach, first, or business class on all domestic flights regardless of job classification. The first and business class service charges charged by NWA will be eliminated.
International travel for Employee/Spouse/Dependent
Each eligible traveler (employee, spouse, and dependent) will be allowed 3 International flight days. International taxes apply and will be payroll deducted. One flight day is a calendar day on which a pass rider has traveled on a flight scheduled to depart on that calendar day. Regardless of the number of departures on a calendar day, as long as all flights flown are scheduled to depart on the same calendar day, the allotment will be decremented by only one flight day. For flight day purposes, the date of departure is determined by the scheduled (not actual) departure time.

Example 1: Tina departs ATL for CDG on July 5 Atlanta time. The flight arrives CDG on July 6 however this only deducts one international flight day because the flight departed on July 5. Arrival time/date does not affect international flight days. Tina returns to ATL on July 10. She arrives and departs in the same day. Another day is deducted for an international flight day. The round trip took 2 international flight days.

After the allotted 3 international flight days are used, eligible travelers may continue to travel on international flights by purchasing ZED fare tickets. Travel to Asia, Europe, Africa, Australia, Central and South America will deduct against your International travel days. Unlimited travel is allowed to the Caribbean, Canada, and Mexico; however international taxes apply. Pass allotments can be found on TravelNet. When a day has been used, it will be reflected under �My Account� in TravelNet. If an eligible traveler uses more than their 3 international flight days, then the employee will be subject to a service charge by Delta and disciplinary action. The service charge will be determined by Delta and will be payroll deducted. The pass bureau will not have the ability to determine the service charge assessed by Delta. It is the employee�s responsibility to keep track of their international flight days for each of their eligible travelers.
Domestic Partner
Delta will allow opposite and same gender domestic partner travel starting June 23. The domestic partner�s dependent children will also be eligible. The domestic partner and domestic partner�s dependent children will be charged the yield fare rate. Yield fares must be purchased by credit or debit card through TravelNet prior to traveling. The yield fare averages from $0.02 to $0.04 per mile plus applicable taxes. To calculate the cost of a yield fare, the employee will need to list through TravelNet. The pass bureau will not have the ability to calculate yield fare rates. Fares must be obtained through TravelNet. The domestic partner is allowed unlimited travel on domestic flights at the yield fare rate. The domestic partner is allowed 3 international flight days at the yield fare rate. After the 3rd international flight day has been used, the domestic partner will need to purchase a ZED fare for international travel.

If listings are made through the toll free listing numbers then the payment process will vary. If you list for a Delta flight via the Delta toll free number, you will be prompted to pay for the ticket at the ticket counter prior to traveling. If you list for a NWA flight via the NWA toll free number, the fare will be payroll deducted after you travel. Toll free listing numbers can be found in the Q & A section.

Parents
Parent travel will now be at the ZED high rate for travel on all NWA and Delta flights beginning June 23.

• Parents will no longer be in the NWA travel system effective June 23.
• Parents will not be listed in Delta�s TravelNet program.
• All ZED fare ticketing shells will be created by the Pinnacle Pass Bureau. Once a ticketing shell is created by the pass bureau, the parent can purchase the ticket at the NWA ticket counter. Tickets can not be purchased at the Delta ticket counter.
• Parents will be required to purchase ZED fares for travel on Pinnacle, Northwest, Mesaba, Compass, Delta, Comair, ASA, Skywest, Chautauqua, Freedom, & Shuttle America flights.
• ZED fares for travel on Delta and Northwest will be in economy coach class. First or Business class will not be allowed. If the flight is full in economy it will be the gate agent�s discretion to allow first or business class.
• ZED fares are valid for 90 days
• All unused ZED fare tickets should be sent to NWA to process a refund.

All parent travel that is listed through the NWA system (PARS or 1-800-NWA NREV) needs to be completed by June 22. If paper ticket ZED fares are not obtained for travel on or after June 23, the parent will not be able to complete their itinerary.

Parent Travel Procedures
An on-line request form is currently available to request price quotes or ticketing shells. Use this on-line form to request all parent travel including NWA, Delta and all other airline (OAL) travel agreements.

1. Go to the Pinnacle Airlines, Inc. | Welcome employee website
2. Click on Travel > Pass Bureau > Parent travel request form
3. Complete the request form. If requesting a price only, no flight numbers are required. Type �open� in the flight number box.
4. If �Need Price Only� is selected, the pass bureau will email the employee back the price quote. Allow 3-5 business days for processing. If �Need ticketing shell� is selected, the pass bureau will set up the ticketing shell for the parent to purchase at the NWA ticket counter. Tickets can not be purchased at the Delta ticket counter. If flight numbers are provided for travel on NWA or Delta, the pass bureau will also list the parent on the requested flight. If flight numbers are not known at that time, type �open� in the flight number box. Allow 3-5 business days for processing.

If you are unable to utilize the on-line request form, then a form will be available to fax to the pass bureau. Please contact your manager to obtain the form. The form is available on the employee website under travel > pass bureau > forms on the employee website. The pass bureau will not quote any prices over the phone. The only ticketing shells that will be made over the phone will be for emergency travel.
Boarding Priority
Your boarding priority is determined by your standby code and your seniority date. Delta will use their program for the stand-by codes.
Delta travel codes
S3 Travel. Pinnacle employee/spouse/domestic partner/dependent will travel at S3 on Pinnacle operated flights. Delta & NWA employees will travel at S3 on Pinnacle flights. Boarding will be based on seniority with all Delta/NWA/Pinnacle employees mixed in.
S3C Travel. Pinnacle employee/spouse/dependent/domestic partner will travel at S3C on Delta or any other Delta connection carrier.
S4 Travel. Pinnacle parents will travel at S4 on all Delta or Delta connection flights.

The NWA travel codes will be realigned to match the Delta travel codes effective June 23.

Service Fees
Pass riders including parents will continue to have their 1st and 2nd checked bag fees waived, except in markets that have restrictions in place for operational reasons. The embargoes can be found on TravelNet under News & Info > Pass Travel Alerts.

Delta will now waive the current carry-on pet fees for pass riders (employee, spouse, domestic partner & dependent). ZED pass travelers (parents) will not be exempt from the carry-on pet fee.
Companion (Buddy Pass) Travel & Registered Travel Companion
The companion (buddy pass) and registered travel companion programs will be eliminated effective June 23. Delta will not be offering buddy pass travel to Pinnacle employees. This includes eliminating the companion program on NWA, Compass, Mesaba & Pinnacle flights effective June 23. All companion (buddy pass and registered travel companion) travel needs to be completed by June 22. . If companions do not complete travel by June 22, they risk the possibility of purchasing a full fare revenue ticket to complete their itinerary. The pass bureau will not be able to assist any companions who do not complete travel by this date.
Fly Confirmed for Less (Positive space discount) program
This program will be eliminated for Pinnacle employees effective June 23. Employees will no longer be able to purchase discounted confirmed space tickets on or after June 23.
Delta�s Non-dependent program
Delta will not be offering the non-dependent program to Pinnacle employees.
Reduced Rate travel on other airlines
Pinnacle employees will continue to be covered under NWA�s other airline agreements. Parents will need to obtain ticketing shells to purchase paper tickets for other airline travel through the Pinnacle Pass Bureau, since parent information will no longer be in the NWA system. The on-line or fax request form should be used to set up travel for parents on OAL (other airlines). See parent section for ticketing procedures.
Retiree Travel
Retirees will be required to buy ZED fares for travel on all flights within the NWA and Delta system. ZED fares will be set up by the Pinnacle pass bureau.
Company Business Travel
On TravelNet, you will find a section titled CoBus Travel which stands for company business travel. This should only be used by management employees who are authorized for company business travel. If any employee books any unauthorized company business travel, the employee will be subject to disciplinary action up to and including termination.

So does this mean that after the 3 free flight days are used, I can just purchase a ZED ticket on OAL and NOT be subject to disciplinary action? (ie. go to Sydney once on DL, Costa Rica once on DL and Narita on American Airlines ZED ticket) without the association on the 3 days crap attached? This is unbelievable!!!!!!

Technically, we can only travel to Asia, Europe, South/Central America ONE ROUND-TRIP PER YEAR?? ARE THEY FRIGGIN SERIOUS????