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Old 06-06-2006 | 12:11 AM
  #61  
de727ups's Avatar
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
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"Don't expect to be treated with kindness if you fit into this category"

Oh no, we're just old, out of touch, egomaniacs that need to learn it's a brave new world now. ANY way you get time in your logbook is fine. If that means paying for a job, then so be it, nothing is sacred. I'll get on the list faster than you so I can have another year at the top pay scale just before retirement. Getting on the list FAST is what it's all about. If the airlines FAA blessed training program says I'm good enough to do the job at 250 hours, then that should be good enough for you line Capts. That minimum standard is all I need to meet. What's your problem with that? I love flying and I'd do it for nothing just to be an airline pilot.

I fear for the future....
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Old 06-06-2006 | 04:43 AM
  #62  
flaps 9's Avatar
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From: 737 F/O
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Originally Posted by WorkinStiff
Just some personal observations and opinions derived from 26 years in the airline industry.

Hours in a logbook are not indications of skill or competency. Building time is not the same as learning to be a skilled, competent pilot. The quality of the time is important. There are no shortcuts to learning in this industry. It's an old, worn out saying, but it's very true. You now have a license to learn. After thousands of hours in everything from part 121 regional turboprops to transport category jets, I'm still learning. There's no substitute for PIC time, flight instructing, flying part 135 freight, etc. It's hard work and it doesn't pay well, but it teaches you volumes and builds confidence. It refines airmanship and instrument skills. Things you will surely need to have, because there are folks out there in the left seat who do not have them. Most of them get away with it because of a competent First Officer. A First Officer is not in the aircraft to "handle the radios". A First Officer is expected to have the knowledge to make decisions and operate the aircraft in an emergency or in the event the Captain becomes incapacitated. Over the years, I've flown with pilots who have taken the shortcuts, a few were competent, most were not. It usually takes one leg to rear it's ugly head. Don't expect to be treated with kindness if you fit into this category. This is a very serious business. If you don't care enough to learn, don't aggravate those of us who have. I have quite a few friends who are Captains at one of the large regionals that is famous for hiring low time, "flight academy graduates". Almost all of them are considering changing careers. Most Captains are more than happy to teach what they have learned over the years. Most will also make your life a living hell if you expect them to be flight instructors. If you must take the shortcuts, you better bring your A game, because if you don't, your job won't be much fun. It's not "jealousy". It's not wanting to be on the flight deck with a dumbass you can't depend on.

I also fly because I love it. I also love the income, though shrinking, that it provides for my family. It's shrinking because airlines know there will always be an endless stream of prostitutes who will work for next to nothing. They will for a while anyway. After a year or two, they will be the one's crying about low pay and bad working conditions.

If you must be a pilot, take the time to learn how to be one. Riding in the right seat of a jet aircraft does not make you a safe one. Your passengers and fellow crewmembers deserve no less. Money seems not be a problem for you, If so, congratulations! Most of us are not that fortunate. Do us all a favor and find a corporate job that pays crap instead of helping lower everyone else's paycheck.

EXCELLENT POST!

There are quite a few of you out there who need to save this post and refer to it as you decide on how you are going to build flight time.

I undertstand being new, but I have a hard time respecting new f/o's (low time) who can't talk on the radio, plan a descent, or fly a visual approach.

You guys need to understand that you can't "buy" experience

Last edited by flaps 9; 06-06-2006 at 04:47 AM.
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Old 06-06-2006 | 04:44 AM
  #63  
flaps 9's Avatar
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Joined: Apr 2005
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From: 737 F/O
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Originally Posted by de727ups
"Don't expect to be treated with kindness if you fit into this category"

Oh no, we're just old, out of touch, egomaniacs that need to learn it's a brave new world now. ANY way you get time in your logbook is fine. If that means paying for a job, then so be it, nothing is sacred. I'll get on the list faster than you so I can have another year at the top pay scale just before retirement. Getting on the list FAST is what it's all about. If the airlines FAA blessed training program says I'm good enough to do the job at 250 hours, then that should be good enough for you line Capts. That minimum standard is all I need to meet. What's your problem with that? I love flying and I'd do it for nothing just to be an airline pilot.

I fear for the future....
Another great post!
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Old 06-06-2006 | 06:03 PM
  #64  
On Reserve
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 23
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Again, I did not build my time by doing the PFT or PFJ thing WorkinStuff. I was fortunate enough to be in the right places at the right times. I don't know if you read my previous post in this same thread, but I am not going to quote it here, it would take up to much room. Please go back and read it. As for experience, I totally agree with you on the old saying this is a license to learn. I learn something new everyday, whether it deals with flying or maintaining aircraft. As my first post in this thread says, I fly many different aircraft in all kinds of weather in all kinds of airspace. I always see something new. This has helped me bacome a more well rounded pilot than someone who has built there time as a CFI, or so I feel. As for your comment on the endless supply of prostitutes that will work for next to nothing and than later cry about the working conditions and low pay are the ones who help the real pilots who got in because they love it climb the seniority list so quickly. I've been doing what I'm doing since 2001 and am just now makeing over $10.00 an hour with a wife and kid, yes my wife works, but she only makes $12.00 hour and doesn't get payed OT. Labor laws?

The year is 2006, not 1956. Things have changed.

Blame; deregulation, big business, and mismanagement for what is going on in the industry today. Not us.

Last edited by BAPilot; 06-06-2006 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 06-08-2006 | 09:00 AM
  #65  
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Joined: May 2006
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From: FO
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I have quite a few friends who are Captains at one of the large regionals that is famous for hiring low time, "flight academy graduates".
Is that (F.A.G) you are talking about? I heard that place sucks

Sorry I couldn't resist. If you want to be a good pilot, go out and get about 50 hours of tailwheel time and then instruct in one. It is amazing when you get a hot-shot student in a tailwheel for the first time. It is very humbling for them.
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