Question for when companies start hiring...
 

Hi, I am flight instructing right now, waiting to pounce on an opening and was wondering what I could expect as far as schedules. I know this is like asking how much a private pilot ticket costs, but even a ridiculously rough estimate is fine. I know some companies have 1- and 2-day trips and I was wondering how common those are and how much I could rely on those trips either as a junior or senior FO. Is it feasible to have a 2-day and a 3-day in a 2-week period, and if so, would that sacrifice my ability to pay the bills? I probably would not commute.

Basically my girlfriend does not like the idea of me being away from home for half the month. :)

Thanks!

You'll be gone more than half the month. If you don't commute, expect 10-11 days "off" per month. These are movable at the company's discretion (you usually get 3 non movable days off per month). You might have a weekend planned with said g/f, then have it robbed away from you to fly a trip. On reserve, you'll get the scraps and it hurts.

Once you are a junior line holder, you'll get 12-14 days off, typically 4 days trips with 1 or 2 days off in between. No weekends, early shows and late arrivals back to base, long overnights, inefficient trips, etc.

Basically whatever you don't want is what you'll get because the senior guys are getting the good schedules. As hiring continues and attrition plays out, you'll get better and better schedules and the guys hired under you will take over the $%^#.

Don't bother going to Part 121 if you aren't willing to commute somewhere. You are limiting yourself already and haven't even started. If the girlfriend becomes a wife she will have to get over you being gone.

Get a new girlfriend. I would seriously consider anything else before a regional.

Depends on what company, how fast they're hiring, and whether you live in base or not...

If you live in base, you'll be fine...if you're sitting reserve for someplace like Pinnacle where you have to do airport reserve 9 hours a day, 20 days a month, you probably won't last with a needy gf...

Your first 121 groundschool/checkride are also not good times to have a needy gf.

Not saying your gf is needy...but if she is, you're going to have to be upfront with her about the fact that she's going to need to get used to you being gone a whole lot more for the first 2-12 months of your career...

There is a reason pilots have a high divorce rate...I'd say 50% of the guys in my new hire class weren't with the same serious gf by the end of year 1...not saying you won't be fine...but you should definitely be aware of the fact that there will be a serious strain on your relationship...and it's better to deal with and discuss those issues now b/c if/when you get a regional job, the relationship stress will hit the fan real fast...

Don't bust a checkride for a girlfriend...

Either find a new girlfriend or profession. You will be gone for at least 1/2 of each and every month for the rest of you career.

And this is under the best circumstances.

Seriously listen to us. If she can't handle constantly changing schedules, you being gone 2 months at a time for training, and you only being home for 10 days a month, lose her. I was a FO in a pretty decent bidding spot. I was grabbing the max days off that our schedules were built to. That was 4 on 3 off. If she can't handle that, toss her back. But I would honestly say that it is your fault for not explaining this to her when you met. One of my first old timer instructors told me "Explain what the life is like to any woman you start dating, BEFORE IT GETS SERIOUS. Don't sugar coat it. Explain the long periods of being gone, the crappy pay for years, the constantly changing schedules, the constant moving or commuting. Explain that when you have your first child she will be alone for 4 days at a time and she better be able to handle that."

My suggestion. HAVE HER READ THESE RESPONSES!! And as others have said, Training is intense and the last thing you need is a needy girlfriend to cause you to fail your first professional checkride.

I got some amazing advice from my Chief Instructor at the flight school I worked at when I started getting serious with my girlfriend.

She told me, no matter how cool/chill/understanding/supportive a girlfriend may be, DO NOT put a ring on her finger until you have been at an airline for at least 6 months to a year.

Seriously, she knew my girlfriend (now ex) was awesome and still gave me that advice. I couldn't even imagine what it'd be like with a girlfriend similar to what you're describing.

You need to educate your girlfriend or get a new one who is independant enough to exist without you for more than half of your career, or go into dentistry.

You'll start out on reserve, which theoretically isn't bad duty if you live in base and your company has a reasonable call out (a couple hours). You're committed to 19 or 20 days a month, and those days might be movable if you don't have good work rules. If your company tries to staff on a shoestring, you may very well get called out every day, and expect multi-day trips.

Your crew base may very well have out and backs, or other day trips, but expect those to go senior, which brings up another point; Only one pilot in your seat (domicile, equipment, seat) really has seniority, EVERYONE else has juniority.

If your contract has trip rig, the company is motivated to build good schedules, lest they have to pay you even when you don't fly. Without trip rig, it'll take a lot of multi day trips to get a month's worth of credit. I don't know what's typical at a regional, but you can most likely expect a four day trip every week. There will be two and three day trips too. At my airline, the back to back two day trips tended to not be worth as much as the four days, but they were fine if you wanted an overnight at home in the middle.

If your contract doesn't have duty rig, expect lots of ineficient stand up lines. If you don't know what a stand up is, it's when you report in the evening, fly a leg to an outstation and stay on duty all night (at the hotel) and fly back in the morning, without having a legal rest period. If you have duty rig with premium rig after midnight, these go very senior because you can get about seven hours of pay for flying a couple of hours. If you don't have duty rig, you're better off flipping burgers.

You need to make sure your girlfriend has realistic expectations, so that she doesn't become an unhappy ex-wife. It forced my wife and I to improve our communication skills, but my kids hate four day trips, which breaks my heart.

If your girlfriend has money, tell her you'll have lots of time at home while you're furloughed.

I would live in-base and I'm fully aware that life sucks as a new-hire. I'm hoping that I can at least be one of the first in the door at the beginning of the next hiring spree. I figured I'd have to tell her there's no compromise, at least at an airline. Just wanted to verify.

I would like some people to post how many times they had to change bases in their career for you. You will not be able to move each and every time that they do. I will start!!

Over three years, I have had to change bases 3 times.

Good advice from old timers is "Never move to a location just cause you are based there."

In the words of Hans and Franz (if people still remember them), "Hear me now, listen to me later!" Seriously, if she's worth keeping, she may get ****ed off, frustrated, lonely, etc, but she will do her best to keep it out of your head. The last thing you need is "home issues" replaying in your mind when you're getting into the sim at 3 AM.

This holds true for your probationary period, not just training. I've seen several probies get the ax for attendance issues.

I'm a big fan of living where you want to and working where you have to but living in base while on reserve and/or your 1st year will make life much easier.

Want to work for 'regional' airline and your girlfriend doesn't want you gone half the month?

This kid heard that one too!

YouTube - giggle boy

Thanks for the info, I had a feeling the 1- and 2-days would go senior. I'll relay all this to her and I guess we'll see what happens. Maybe I'll just keep working up the ranks at UND, though I'd rather fly something with more than 4 seats.

Hans and Franz are classic.

What city do you live in?

That schedule is totally unreasonable for a junior (as well as mid-level FO), I'll tell you that much. Try 10-11 days off total a month...totally uncommutable and inefficient trips while sitting short call reserve. You'll be away about twice as much as you're going to be gone!

The girl had better accept that, or it's time to find a new one. It definitely takes a special kind of girl to be able to deal with this lifestyle. It gets better over time, but you're looking at least a while on a crappy schedule.

Alright, I know we've been all doom and gloom so far, so I'll give you this bit of slightly uplifting advice. Its actually the whole reason I LOVED being an airline pilot.

Although you're going to be gone gone for 4 days, you're going to be 100% home for 3. When you're home, you're really home. Not 9-5, not bring a little bit of work home for when the kids go to bed, you are HOME. This may or may not bring her some piece of mind.

I'm in Grand Forks now and she's in San Antonio, so she's getting an idea of what it'll be like. We're both wanting to move though.

Girlfriend? If you working for a commuter, you can't afford a girlfriend, just a subscription to Penthouse.

Seriously though, if she doesn't like you being gone for long periods of time, it's going to be a very very large problem for your relationship.

Thanks for that, seriously. I'll remind her of that too.

You're joking, right?

I've been displaced several times. Therefore it doesn't really pay for me to try to live in domicile because I don't know if the company will change it's mind in 6 months.

And there are very, very, very few commutable schedules. 3 days off is really 1 day off because you are commuting on your first day off and you are commuting on your last day off. Two days killed.

There are some companies that have commutable schedules and some that have affordable bases. My company has neither. Uncommutable schedules in crazy expensive places like DCA and LGA and PHL.

Nice.

I will add that in the right relationship it is great. My fiance' and I thrive on me being gone for half the week. We each get our alone time and it is great.

This first furlough almost ruined us!! SHe was screaming "YOU NEED TO GO BACK TO WORK!!!"

Its funny how people adapt. My wife and I lived in each others' hip pocket for years, then when I began the airline life, we both adapted and sort of got numb to it - making lemonade, I guess. The quality of any given day together was greater than before. Every time I got home, it felt like a vacation to be capitalized upon. We'd go out more and have more fun.

When I left the airline and came back home, there was a month or so of strangeness, but again, we've adapted back to regular life being home every day now. If/when I go back to airline life, it'll probably be a tough transition all over again until we are numb to it again. :)

If you care for each other enough, it'll work either way.

FYI, I commuted 900 miles each way to work as well.

3, 2, 1, 4, whatever. The point was that whey you're home, you're home. Works stays in the cockpit.

I regularly got 3+ days off because I was motivated to work the system. Sometimes it was only 1, but for that 1 day, my phone was off. I was doing what I wanted to do.

so yeah, to the OP, don't tell her 3 days, I just picked a random number. DO NOT make her any promises.

Yeah, and its not only the alone time, but you are actually really excited to see her when you get back, not like 9-5 where you just want some alone time.

A subscription? You can't afford a subscription, you'll have to scour the seat backs for abandoned Stuff and FHM softcore mags. :p


One time I got a call from my wife at 11pm. She was having a rotten day, the baby was sick, the dog peed on the rug, her mom was p!zzing her off, I was 1000 miles away and couldn't get home for 12 hours even if it was a life-or-death emergency. A situation like that is incredibly frustrating for the both of you. Its a tough life for a partner who isn't really independent minded; and that makes it tough on you too.

Living in base is a much better situation, but I've had 7 domiciles in 4 years (4 involuntary) so that's not a sure thing either.


Whatever happens, good luck!

Thanks a lot, I'm sure we'll be fine. Just wanted an idea of how life would be.

Try living out of base...and then pick up some open time on your days off so you can upgrade your Ramen with a shrimp flavoring. I'd pick up trips that ensured 24 hours off when I needed to...otherwise I was flyin. It takes effort to break guarentee when on reserve. Maybe then you can afford that beef flavoring I hear all the captains talking about. All I know is...if you enjoy it, its a job youre going to love. But if you don't enjoy it, then you are going to hate it more than you can imagine. It's a great job because like others on here have said, you can go home and you can totally leave work at work. There is no bringing work home. But you CANNOT bring home to work. If youre on a four or five day trip and all you can think about is home, youre going to be miserable. You won't last a year. That being said, I have very few original thoughts of my own so take this lesson from Joe Dirt...

Old Cajun Man: [In a muffled back water accent] Home is where you make it.
Joe Dirt: What?
Old Cajun Man: Home is where you make it.
Joe Dirt: You like to see homos naked?
Old Cajun man: Home is where you make it.
Joe Dirt: Oh.
Joe Dirt: Guy likes to see homos naked, that doesn't help me

Gaw'dam boy!

YouTube - Home is where you make it

Good to see a fellow Flying Illini picking up my slack. BJ would be proud.

Dont make the mistake alot of guys have made. It IS as bad as most people say it is. What I did was try to sugarcoat the truth to my wife because I wanted to do aviation as a career and I didnt want to let her down. My only saving grace was when I said "it cant be as bad as the Corps" which it isnt.

Let her read this thread and tell her that if you can be home for close to 10 days per month then you are in great shape while making 18K the first year as it will most likely be true and anything better will be a bonus.

The lower seniority folks at my airline do 5 days on 2 days off reserve with no weekends off non commutable every month and work every holiday and have for the last year and will so for the next year until attrition or upgrades happen which both are not likely.

Getting in at the front of the hiring "booom" (it may be more like a hiring fizzle or pop) are high aspirations but also consider that although you are building great time it is a brutal market and will be. The first to be hired when it starts back up will be guys with 1500-3000+ hours with 1000+ multi turbine and possibly a type rating or two. It will be a tough market for a CFI for a while.

Everything you read here is the truth. Perhaps its better to look at 135 gigs when they start hiring. :cool:

I hope your girlfriend likes your parents. Because you'll be living at your parent's house for afew years when you're making $16,000/year. Good luck.

Regional pay sucks...we all know that, but this $16,000 a year stuff is ridiculous. If you really make that little then it's your own fault for going to work for a REALLY bad company. Year one I managed to gross $29k, and year 2 was up to $41k. Do NOT go to the first company that will hire you just to get an airline job! Wait it out for a company that will treat you better and pay you at least a somewhat respectable wage.

What airlines actually pay $16,000 a year starting out?....besides Great Lakes of course.

My first year I pulled in $29,000 Gross and $23,000 Net....stupid taxes

Dashtrash, who do you work for, Horizon?

$29000/12bids/75guarantee = a bit over $32 an hour


$16000/12bids/75guarantee = almost $18 an hour

That's just about every B1900 operator, and Mesa.
Lynx is close too at, $17600.

I barely grossed $21,000 my first full year, and I work for one of the "better" regionals. Of course, I was on reserve almost the entire year.

I guess the question is "Do you want a life other than work"? Reason I say this is in order to make any sort of a living on first year pay at 95% of all regionals one would need to whor* themselves out to crew scheduling.......

No, Piedmont. That seems weird cause I was hired near the beginning of the year and got on the line in late March. Starting pay then was $25.58 an hour and then increased to $26.35 in May.