i lold.....

HOW DARE YOU...how dare you have the nerve to impose reality on us! :D

A brand new E-1 makes about the same as a Colgan FO. Even more, when you add in BAH, etc.

A 2nd Louie heading off to his officer basic course makes $2655, or the equivalent of $36 an hour at a 75 hour guarantee. A US Army Captain with 4 years of service makes almost the same as a Express Jet Captain with 4 years service.


Military service, like the priesthood, is not supposed to be financially rewarding. Commercial pursuits are.

But at that time he didn't.

He had the same experience and skill as a guy graduating from Po Dunk County Directional Junior Technical Community College.

As a coffer-fetcher he made more than the most senior FO at any regional airline.

Next week he moves to California, to become a rocket scientist, and will make more than the most senior Captain at any regional airline. Before he ever does any actual work, he has earned that as starting pay.

And he has earned it.


But so have I.

I have a "skill that MOST PEOPLE cant/wont apply themselves to obtain." Only about 1 in 500 Americans are licensed pilots. Only about 10% of those are professional pilots. Sure, we know this stuff isn't rocket science. But its no walk in the park either. I fly to Nantucket in C402s, so my passengers get to watch what I do every minute. This week has been a typical one for the Cape and Islands, 4000 RVR was the easiest approach I did. And every flight, every day, they tell me that they're amazed that we find the airport in the soup, every time. But that's what we do.

We sell ourselves short every day. This job is not easy. Not everyone can do it. Those of us who are doing it deserve to be well compensated for our considerable skills.

Even the 300 hour wonder pilots, because they too are doing the job.

More people have the ability to be pilots than to be aerospace engineers, BY FAR.

So do you consider a 300 hour pilot equal to a 3,000 hour guy with 135 single pilot IFR experience??? If you do you agree with the airlines...The airlines are not going to pay the less experienced guy more money...they are going to pay the MORE EXPERIENCED guy LESS money. So regional airlines have come up with the 2 simple ideas,
***Supply and demand...supply is up, demand is down, so they can choose what criteria they want...and they want the cheapest.

*** The have also developed a game plan:
Less Experience cannot equal more pay, so more experience equals less pay by default.

In this case if you complain you must blame the players (The pilots), and if you accept it you say blame the game not the player.

My first full year at TSA was 1994. I made $16600 flying FO on a J32. I had an ATP a CFI/II/MEI and 500 MEL, and a college degree (not ERU). I have over 10000 hours now. What makes anyone think I'll work that cheap? I'm sure all the "regional" airlines are hiring the best pilots they can find that will work that cheap.

I took a $10K+ paycut to go work for ATA in 1998. I made it up in the second year and had better retirement and benefits than TSA. That was also under a really bad IBT contract. ATA was not that well known or all that widely respected as a career position, but the average new hire had about 5000TT with 1000 TPIC. After a couple of years, I wanted to stay there.

I just had my 25 year reunion. One of my friends there just got laid off. He's been working in finance and has a Master's in European history. He applied for a teaching job in our old home town. Starting pay for 1st time teachers is $49K. Where I live now they pay $42K.

The argument that there are very few people with "our" skills is specious, ignorant, and reeks of arrogance. There are very few lawyers, doctors, engineers. How much are they paid? They all worked harder than pilots to get their licenses. Less than 20% of Americans have a bachelor degree (last I heard), and I bet they all get paid more than a "regional" FO's.

Unions are just as guilty as management for negotiating these wages. The market speaks, to a large degree in spite of unionization. If there were no unions, it would speak louder and the industry would be in chaos.

I'm looking to get out. I don't want to work under someone else's terms and more.

There are tons of lawyers without jobs...just like us pilots and it's not that hard to become one, just more schooling. Much of the pilot's schooling is done in an airplane with a student, or banner, or in Alaska. Lawyers and doctors also don't have the fatality rate pilots do. We consistently rank 2nd or 3rd highest career fatality rate Top 10 Most Fatal Occupations - Listverse. How many med school students die while performing fake surgery? We have a specialized skill in a dangerous field that demands respect and higher pay. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone can do this... it does take a mixture of intelligence and skill. All of us who were CFI's for more than a few months had students that just didn't have it. KNOW WHAT YOU'RE WORTH!

Amen, Hal! I'm working overseas now, and I'm so glad I shed that union baggage. I actually make a good living without having to artificially put myself or my family on public assistance that first year.... something I NEVER would be able to do in a union shop.

Screw the unions and screw ALPA!