Any Word on NMB decision for 9E?
 

So what I hear is that NMB are meeting today to decide whether on not to release us...any word out there???? I think its about time for the cool of period...don't you?

I hope they do......time to give permission to 9E pilots to show management they mean BIZ.


This roast is well over cooked and buried....

When was your strike vote?

Sorry for the ignorance, but how long have they been in mediation? When did the mediator convey a profer of arbitration?

almost 2 years ago. it was 90 percent of the pilots voting with a 99 percent approval for strike.

we have been negotiating for 5 years. we have been in mediation for 2. we asked for a profer of arbitration but the company didn't agree to it.

Ok, I don't fly 121, who is 9E?

9E is Pinnacle

And the wait continues...My patience is running out.

man, how are you going to feel in 6 months when we still dont have a decision?

By then I'll be so use to being abused that it won't matter anymore.... Seems to be the theme around here. You get use to it after a while. It can't get much worse than it is right now. 7 days off a month, flying 70+ hours on reserve. Good times baby.

Exactly. I really wish some of you guys would just stop spreading the b.s. I get asked daily, "Any good new rumors?" For the love of god, just stop. There is not one single pilot here, the MEC included, that can tell me "The NMB is going to make a decision today" with any level of integrity or truth. So get over it. It'll happen when it happens and spewing the daily "We're getting a TA today!!" or "We're getting released today!!" rumors are not helping matters at all. And for the record, we can't get released without a few other key steps in the mediation process....

By the way, when a TA does come out please read and understand it front to back cover before you make an informed vote. Too many of you folks use bits of information, and often misinformation, from the company message board or other gossiping pilots to base your judgements and decisions.

This is a big deal folks. Whatever we vote YES on is us, the lowest paid CRJ carrier nationwide with arguably the worst work rules, saying "We think this is fair and acceptable." What we do will effect our entire profession's future. We do not have to continue to play a huge part in the demise of our own industry if we just stand together on this.

Where is this from??? Sounds about right (very similar to a union email), but haven't seen that exact paragraph published anywhere...

Prater's update to the BOD.

If Pinnacle strikes, does that mean all of the DCI pilots would have to stop flying in order not to end up in the black list of scabs? How would that work?

No, the other DCI carriers all continue flying. Delta has learned from Comair's 2001 strike and has made most routes flown in the network flown by more than one carrier. Other carriers CAN refuse "Struck work" which would be routes exclusively done by 9E. When I get a chance I will try to find the exact verbage. There has been NO update from the NMB as of July 4.

A scab is someone who crosses a picket line to fly. One example would be 9E striking and myself (a Pinnacle pilot) calling scheduling and saying "I will fly". Of course you would have to have a gun to my wife's head for me to do this- but you get the point.

I have a current scab list and there are quite a few pilots flying for regionals that are on it... Of course a good percentage on the guys on the list are already dead.

No...DCI carriers and everyone else would be expected to still go to work...it's a labor-group specific thing at the end of an arduous process...53 months of negotiations and a 99% strike vote, then several steps to get a release would have to happen (might not happen), then 30 day cooling off period, then and only then could 9E pilots not show up to work...no one thinks it will get that far, but some think PT could go to 11:59PM on day 30 of a release period before signing IF (huge if) we ever were released...

What didja do, shoot them??;)

...I probably would have (j/k). I am another Pinnacle driver, and I am more than willing to STRIKE!!! I am so sick and tired of of hearing, "oh my, we are so close SOMETHING is gonna happen next time we meet with the company." Then in cousin Clive's last memo he states that we have a very good offer on the table for our pilots, but they don't wanna agree to it...(the dual-qual nonsense). Then at the end he says, "It is time we get this done.:eek:" Huh? You're blankety blankin right it is time we have this done, but you and the rest of the gang keep finding new ways to hold us up. You DON'T want it done Clive!!!!!:mad: Anyway...rant over.

From the master scab list:

A SCAB is A Person Who is Doing What You’d be Doing if You Weren’t on Strike.
A SCAB takes your job, a Job he could not get under normal circumstances. He can only advance himself by taking advantage of labor disputes and
walking over the backs of workers trying to maintain decent wages and working conditions. He helps management to destroy his and your profession,
often ending up under conditions he/she wouldn't even have scabbed for. No matter. A SCAB doesn't think long term, nor does he think of anything other
then himself. His smile shows fangs that drip with your blood, for he willingly destroys families, lives, careers, opportunities and professions at the drop of
a hat. He takes from a striker what he knows he could never earn by his own merit: a decent Job. He steals that which others earned at the bargaining
table through blood, sweat and tears, and throws it away in an instant - ruining lives, jobs and careers.
ONCE A SCAB, ALWAYS A SCAB - NEVER FORGET!
Below are brief notes about legal strikes by organized pilots.
1. Century Airlines 1932: Pilots struck to resist wage reduction by E.L Cord, the patron saint of Frank Lorenzo.
2. TWA 1946: Pilots struck over pay on faster 4 engine aircraft, limited by the provisions of Decision 83.
3. National Airlines 1948: Strike over aircraft safety and repeated violations of the labor contract.
4. Western Airlines 1958: Qualifications of the Flight Engineer.
5. Southern Airways 1960: Strike over wage rates at regional carrier vs. larger airline.
6. Rio Airways 1976: Pilots represented by the Union of Professional Airmen, an ALPA affiliate, struck over issues of seniority, pay, safety and system
board neutrality after failing to negotiate first contract.
7. Wien Air Alaska 1977: Crew complement on B-737.
8. Continental Airlines 1983: Struck to resist Frank Lorenzo’s use of Bankruptcy Law to abrogate labor contracts.
9. Pan American 1985: Pilots MEC elected to honor TWU picket line. These people did not honor that strike.
10. United Airlines 1985: Forced by mgmt to strike over B-Scale pay rates and the company attempt to break UAL ALPA.
11. Eastern Airlines 1989: Pilots honored IAM picket lines against Frank Lorenzo’ s asset-stripping of EAL to favor Continental.
12. AFAP 1989: Australian Federation of Air Pilots at 4 domestic airlines quit to protect retirement after disputing government wage control program.
Some Americans, among others, happily filled in.
13 Comair 2001: Pilots struck over poor pay and work rules. They fought to end the second class treatment of all Small Jet pilots.
IMPORTANT NOTES: The CAL and EAL MECs determined that simply agreeing to work (or going to training) at these companies during the strike, not
just flying a revenue trip, was enough to be a scab. They alone can determin the definition of “struck work” and we cannot second guess or change that
determination now. The struck work definition was made BEFORE the strike, and anyone who violated it has only themselves to blame. "Ident" column
gives employee number, LAST FOUR of their SSN, date of birth (dob), ATP number, date of hire (doh), or other means of identification. "Seniority Suit"
means those Scabs at UAL who sued the union and the company to prevent the 570 from regaining their proper seniority position. "Fleet Qualified" (FQ,
Flt Qual, etc.) are those hired off the street under a special pay plan and with promises of super-seniority to replace union pilots at United. ALPA – Some
scabs are ALPA members because the ’85 Back-to Work agreement forced the union not to “discriminate” against the back-stabbers who tried to steal
their jobs and seniority. Some Scabs never resigned from the union and continue to pay dues. Some scabs did some penance and were forgiven by ALPA
(but NOT forgotten) and re-admitted. Some simply fell through the cracks and got into the union after a merger, name change, etc (PAA). A date for an
EAL Scab is his date of hire, no date means he’s old Eastern. "???" by an EAL Scab means that the name appeared on several Scab lists during the
strike but was absent from the final list. Other remarks show past Employers or other claims to infamy. MOST Scabs at CAL have a LETTER at the END
of their employee number (but not all have this). Most employee numbers are listed (ie 0220B or 51225). The Continental “Preferential Hire” List and UAL
“You Be The Judge” lists are on the last page.
**email removed for public board***
HERE IS A SUMMARY OF THE NUMBER OF SCABS FROM EACH AIRLINE:
Air North Summary AirNorth Both Scabs Listed
Australian Summary AFAP 89 85 America West & Braniff Scabs
Century Summary Century 1 Scab Identified Thus Far
Continental Summary CAL 83 1,996 Scabs listed
Eastern Summary EAL 89 2,253 Scabs Listed
National Summary NAL 48 101 Scabs listed out of 167 total
Northwest Summary NWA 78 34 Scabs listed
Pan American Summary PAA 85 139 Scabs listed
Prinair Summary Prinair 2 Scabs listed
Rio Airways Summary RIO 76 43 Scabs listed
Southern Summary SOU 60 205 Scabs listed
TWA Summary TWA 46 2 Scabs listed
United Summary UAL 85 837 Scabs listed
Western Summary WAL 58 3 Scabs listed
Wien Air Alaska Summmary WAA 77 82 Scabs listed
Comair Summary CMR 01 3 Scabs listed
TOTAL LISTED SCABS 5,799 (Century & NAL incomplete)


Going back to 1932 you will have had a good number of natural deaths.....

Anyone else hearing it is going to be weeks before we hear back from NMB and that they are likely just going to say keep talking?

Or he could pull a page out of the CMR playbook and just fly home in the afternoon on the 30th day. His decision will be heavily influenced by the Regional Airline Association and Delta. If they want him to stand strong, 9E has a lot of cash and they may test the determination of the pilots. Remember, when you go out on strike, you walk out on a guaranteed job. You are walking out saying I would rather shut the company and be unemployed then return under our current working conditions.

I am restating the obvious to many 9E pilots, but you must understand what you are doing. I respect tremendously the resolve and fight to stand up for your convictions. I hope that you walk away with a stellar contract that doesn't require you to walk. But if you do, remember that when door number one closes, there may not be a door number two in today's economy. Good luck guys.

How many 9E guys have contributed to the PAC? Your walking papers are influenced by our influence in Washington. When the RAA contributes millions to the elections, our influence is only as strong as our pocketbooks.

Door #2 for me is out of the industry personally. I would rather fight till the end and shut it down then continue to work under these draconian rules.

Terrible post dude. I don't have time to rebut ur post but please do tell where all of pinnacles money is!
And how much???

Sorry if you took my "best of luck" to be a terrible post.

9E has nearly $300m in cash and short/long term investments. They have one of the strongest cash positions of any regional as I recall. That's where the money is "dude".

Now, tell me Rama, if 9E doesn't have money, what kind of position are you in to get an "industry leading" contract that I've heard the 9E pilots advocate for FIVE years? Where will the money come from?

Perhaps I misread the financials on 9E, and if so, please correct me. You're either in a position to extract additional cash from Pinnacle because they have it or you're not. I think they have it. But that also means, they could ride out a strike if mother Delta tells them to play hardball. That was my post. Either way, my only care is not for you, but for your pilot group. I want you industry leading. Bring the industry up. Sorry if that's terrible.

9E does not have $300M in cash/liquid investments. Read the latest 10K. We DID have $300M about 18 months ago before purchasing Colgan, stock buybacks at a cost basis of $16/shr (now trading around $2.50) and dumping $120M+ into Auction Rate Securities that are now illiquid. There was also some bond issuances for some -900's, and losses absorbed from Colgan until they could become profitable (which only happened last quarter or the one prior). I think the actual number is closer to $50-60M without pulling up the 10K. There are also some issues with striking built into the ASA so mgmt has some problems if they just let us storm off.

Of course nothing official has been issued by the NMB yet.

what a joke, one of our own captains made the same comment on our company message board. most of the FO's at 9E qualify for food stamps, there is no way we have extra change to throw towards PAC. Now if our MEC wants to use some of our dues to do that, I'm all for it.

Higney,
Thanks for the help. I am mobile and didn't have the time or patience to deal with mr. Delta

Dal4never,
I think you can go back up on your pedestal and return to the majors board with your attitude. And as for our contract, we are asking for industry AVERAGE!!!!
The only thing our management will allow to be leading is the length that it took to sign the new contract!

You can back the PAC with as little as $1 a paycheck. Every little bit helps, even though I hate politics- sometimes you gotta play the game!

The MEC can't do that. Neither can ALPA national collect dues for political purposes. It must be based on voluntary contributions. I'm not slamming what you make, just making a statement. If the RAA contributes heavily to lobbyists to further their agenda and give to political stooges, at the end of the day, who has the power? Its those who have the influence. Sadly, the game is a pay to play. I hate it, but its the reality of our political system.

No problem. BTW, I spent 10 years at the regionals, got hired at DAL in 2001, and if you ever view my posts I support whole heartedly the need to bring you out of food stamps. I defend the regional industry ad nauseum daily in the DAL cockpits. I'm not condescending so back off with your teenage slams.

That said, why are you only for industry average? How will you get ahead if a contract that has been five years in the making is only going to bring you up to contracts that were agreed to several years ago? Why aren't you going for industry leading?

That's a great question that was brought up at our last picketting event to a member on the negotiating team. he said we dont want a target on our back and don't want uncle phil and co. to turn around and file for bankruptcy negating this contract we have spent 5 years trying to get. i agree we are only going to be back of the pack again 5 years down the road if we are only shooting for industry average, but i'm not on the comittee so I don't really understand their rationale....

Gents,

The only way we'll ever have a glimmer of hope in really improving our biz again is if our regional airline pilot contracts are too expensive for the regional airline business models to work; thus, forcing mainlines to take back all flying (CRJs and EMBs alike).

Period.

The mindset of "industry average" has come up by many who have had "enough" after continued morale beatings and no movement in paychecks, the "bankrupt" philosophy is one that I cannot even start to justify. PNCL operates Pinnacle Inc (9E) on a "cost-plus" arrangement with Delta with terms of "not to exceed industry average labor costs". This deal covers the 124 CRJ -200's (previously from the NWA ASA signed late 06/early 07 timeframe) and the 16 -900's signed exclusively with Delta. Delta must abide by both contracts in their entirety with the merger. When the ASA for the -200's was signed there was a March 31, 2007 deadline for a pilot contract OR 16 airframes could be removed (down to a minimum of 124). The company did not offer anything worth signing and subsequently 16 -200's were sent to XJ (Mesaba). The company is now operating in an area of "guarantee" revenue- we are at a minimum of airframes -Barring only 2 events; 3 months of horrible performance on either side OR a Strike can cause airframes to be "pulled" from Pinnacle. After 14 days on a strike Pinnacle Inc can have ALL airframes taken away. If we strike for more than a day with less than 50% of the fleet moving we can lose airframes as well. This keeps mgmt from just letting us strike and not having to worry about "blinking". Back to the pay.... The ASA signed was roughly a 10 year deal (2017) is the expiration and halfway through the deal the company and DL get together and figure out how much has been paid for labor costs. If DL has been paying too much, 9E can be liable and have to pay back the labor payments. 9E's labor costs are very low compared to other carriers and from my discussions with multiple MEC/LEC members and negotiator(s) the current financials from TA'd areas still keep our costs below the industry average barrier. That doesn't mean we are getting "shafted", but our labor costs are low for many reasons- the biggest one is longevity. We may have the exact same rates as the most expensive regional, but if only a small group of pilots are at the top of the pay scales, 401K match, etc the costs are significantly lower. There has been a good deal of discussion over on the company board over what we are fighting for and where we have OUR bar set. All that being said, the ALPA contracts are all seperate by design. Each contract is designed to "build" on the previous contract with reference to all the other ALPA carriers. Current language may not be bad in a certain section, but each and every section can have improvements. Think about this... We are working on a 4th generation contract at 9E, yet we have been working for a contract (and under previous terms) long enough to be working on a 5th generation contract. We cannot let the company just get away with morale beatings. Nobody is asking for fedex pay rates, but just settling for "average" when many contracts (at other carriers) are coming up for negotiations and/or are concessionary agreements just short changes us.

Great post...I've looked for the ASA docs everywhere but you've pretty much summed up what I was looking for.

I hope the NMB knocks some sense into the company. Of course I'd rather see a good contract without a release, but if that doesn't happen, it would be of great benefit to not only us, but also EVERY airline all the way up the chain if we were released...think of the implications for every other airline in section 6 negotiations now, or close to entering negotiations...the message would be clear to every management team--you can't drag your feet with this NMB, or your pilots WILL be released...which is how the whole thing was supposed to work in the first place...

There was a decent article in the last issue of ALPA's "Airline Pilot" about Chairman Puchala and the current status of the NMB...

I wish we had some sort of time frame from the nmb as to when they expect to get back to us.

Fellas, we are a safe bunch of pilots. But we can be safer. One area of concern is the cracking in the Nav light covers, specifically around the screws. Thats a no-go item. Non MEL-able, non defer-able. The next time you or your FO is doing a walk around, have a close look at those covers. I just dont feel safe departing with cracks in the plastic.

You know, that is a very good point. I will have to pay a more attention to that. Personally, I do not feel comfortable flying unless all placards are readable. This is includes all external stickers. Somebody (cough TSA cough cough) may try to use a pitot tube as a ladder if that "No Step Danger Heated Probe" placard is missing.

Now you guys are talking "THE RIGHT STUFF" and make sure you pay closer attention when you are some place like IDA HLN MFE CHA or ATW. Better yet since things always break at TYS out of the hanger it would be a good messure to measure twice cut once when it come's to saftey.

It's to bad these thoughts have to be posted to show just how frustrated you all are...PATHETIC.

Why don't we simply adhere to the FOM, our job description, and FAA regs?

Where does it say in our FOM regarding the use of cell phones to contact dispatch, mx control, etc...? We need to stop using them and abide by the FOM regarding preferred methods of communications.

There should only be one call to dispatch or mx control. Call once, get a response then wait. No more reminders, you've done your job. Same with any type of servicing, call once get a response then wait - you've done your job.

Comply appropriately with all mx issues and write them up accordingly. Taxi at the safest speed as stated in the AIM.