look at our future
 

First year pay
Republic First year pay E170 year 1. CAPT $59, FO $23.
Lynx Aviation First year Q400 year 1. CAPT $50, FO $21.

Frontier First year pay A318/319. CAPT $111, FO $37.
Delta First year pay A319/320. CAPT $143, FO $52.

Third year pay
Frontier A318/319 CAPT $117, FO 73.
Delta A319/320 CAPT $145, FO 90.

Looks like the out look is a lot of pilots are going to be flying for the regionals and low cost carriers. Lets leave the low pay and dues paying in our carriers to the college campus. I think first year pay at an airline should be at or above the average family income for the city you are based in.

I don't think most airlines will be around for 30 years with out going through bankruptcies. Why do all the unions fight so hard for a contract that pays so little in the beginning and so much more around the 30 year mark.

I think we should push for 5 year pay scales so we can reach our companies top pay in 5 years. If the company you work for goes under when the economy tanks every ten years plus or minus a little you will have maid top pay for a couple of years.

We need to change the industry for the better because what we are doing is not working in a deregulated industry. We have large pay gape between companies and equipment. The largest cost that an airline can control is labor. The largest two cost that are variable are fuel and labor.

If we keep blaming the other guy, the old pilot or the young pilot, the company, management, government, the customer, we are going to get nowhere.

We all have something to offer lets make a difference and stop waiting for some one else to do it for us. How the change will come i don't know but i think all of us want to see the the profession change the direction it is going.

I love to fly i don't want to do something else. If i have kids i want them to fly if they so choose. If you guys feel the same way lets do something lets work for a common goal.

The industry is changing and we are fighting to restore the old way. Lets find a new way.

check out the link it is along read but worth it.

Aircraft Pilots and Flight Engineers

Job Outlook [About this section] Back to Top
Regional airlines and low-cost carriers will present the best opportunities; pilots attempting to get jobs at the major airlines will face strong competition.

Employment change. Employment of aircraft pilots and flight engineers is projected to grow 13 percent from 2006 to 2016, about as fast as the average for all occupations. Population growth and an expanding economy are expected to boost the demand for air travel, contributing to job growth. New jobs will be created as airlines expand their capacity to meet this rising demand by increasing the number of planes in operation. However, employment growth will be limited by productivity improvements as airlines switch to larger planes and adopt the low-cost carrier model that emphasizes faster turnaround times for flights, keeping more pilots in the air rather than waiting on the ground. Also, fewer flight engineers will be needed as new planes requiring only two pilots replace older planes that require flight engineers.

Job prospects. Job opportunities are expected to continue to be better with the regional airlines and low-cost carriers, which are growing faster than the major airlines. Opportunities with air cargo carriers also should arise because of increasing security requirements for shipping freight on passenger airlines, growth in electronic commerce, and increased demand for global freight. Business, corporate, and on-demand air taxi travel also should provide some new jobs for pilots.

Pilots attempting to get jobs at the major airlines will face strong competition, as those firms tend to attract many more applicants than the number of job openings. Applicants also will have to compete with laid-off pilots for any available jobs. Pilots who have logged the greatest number of flying hours using sophisticated equipment typically have the best prospects. For this reason, military pilots often have an advantage over other applicants.

In the long run, demand for air travel is expected to grow along with the population and the economy. In the short run, however, employment opportunities of pilots generally are sensitive to cyclical swings in the economy. During recessions, when a decline in the demand for air travel forces airlines to curtail the number of flights, airlines may temporarily furlough some pilots.

Deregulation isn't the issue.

That is the issue.

I do love to fly but i have chosen not to work for the regionals due to low pay. But i would like to fly for one day. I also want to get paid to fly.

I don't think that wanting to fly is the problem. I like to fly.

The problem is someone who is willing to work for substandard pay and qol because they like doing it. A bigger problem than that is someone who is willing to work for peanuts for a few years in order to get to the dangling carrot. Unfortunately, more or less, that is how the game is played.

I think you are right these are some of the problems. Pilots that vote on a contract that lets junior pilots work for peanuts is also a problem.

Yup. If people were willing to walk away, things would be better for everyone else. Too many pilots looking for jobs. Unions can only temper the normal way of supply/demand. The forces are still at work.

You have to take more than that into account. Don't get me wrong... I think we should all get paid more but you have to look at the big picture when you are displaying these stats.

Monthly Guarantee
Frontier 75 hrs
Delta 65 hrs

Tenth year pay
Frontier 320 CAPT $146 = Yearly Guarantee $131,400
Delta 320 CAPT $153 = Yearly Guarantee $119,340

Fifth Year Pay
Frontier 320 FO $82 =Yearly Guarantee $73,800
Delta 320 FO $94 =Yearly Guarantee $73,320

Per Diem
Frontier $1.85
Delta $2.00/hr

Other work rules and retirement play a HUGE part in the overall compensation package as well.

My point is: It is not as cut and dry as you make it seem. Delta probably has a higher overall compensation than Frontier but it takes more than comparing a few years pay scales to figure that out. Same with Lynx and Republic. I'm sure the RAH guys make quite a bit more than the Lynx pilots overall.

I think Unions were good and they have done great thinks for the industry in regards to safety. I think if we got rid of all the unions we would be better off. I think pilots would walk away if they didn't have to start over when they came back. Why does a furloughed major airline pilot have to start over at the bottom of the hill in regards to pay. In other parts of the world and in other industries people go form job to job with out pay cuts.

The system the unions created is not working for me 20,000 dollars to fly a 50 seat jet is not right. And then to ask this person to pay dues on that 20,000 is even worse. Most regional pilots are going to be regional pilots forever or they are going to walk away.

Are you willing to walk away?

You are spot on. My point is if airline A's cost structure is a lot higher than airline B's due to pilot pay then the lower cost airline is more competitive and bankruptcies will happen i just want to get paid early in my career because their is a good chance pilots today will never see 30 year at one company.

I walked back in December.

But, I waited until the dire end. I had received my furlough notice and was just about to miss Christmas at home for the second time in a row, only to come back right after the new year to be displaced to a different base (IAH) and sit reserve after I had been a line holder for over a year, just to be thrown onto the street three months later while working for one of the worst regionals in the business who was shedding airplanes like no tomorrow, shrinking left and right with no end in sight, coupled with the infamous alter-ego stepsister hiring off the street simultaneously.

I crunched the numbers and came to the conclusion that it was time to bail. Plus, I wanted to catch the spring semester back at school to better myself a bit outside of aviation instead of waiting until after the furlough to start six months later in the summer. Plus, if I got a callback anytime soon, I'd be smack in the middle of a semester (likely) and would probably have to either quit school for another go at the carrier or turn down the callback anyway.

Despite all this, though, I am patiently waiting on the sidelines. If this industry ever turns into something worth pursuing, I might give it another go. But am not afraid (in fact I am doing it now) to do something else. I am not their b$#@!. Life is too short.