oh this is just great ...ughhh these DCI rumors keep getting better and better.

You are a wise man!

Pretty sure DCI guys can get as many Q400 as they want. Nothing prevents that. However that will never happen. That rumor has been around for soooo long. The rj700 rumor is actually possible.

It's less than a CRJ-700. At what weight(max gross or empty) is the limit as far as DL's scope is concerned?
Here is what Bombardier has published for Q400 weight specs for the high gross weight version:

Weights: High Gross Weight Version (HGW)

Maximum takeoff weight 64,500 lb 29,257 kg
Maximum landing weight 61,750 lb 28,009 kg
Maximum zero fuel weight 57,000 lb 25,855 kg
Operating weight empty 37,888 lb 17,185 kg
Maximum payload 19,112 lb 8,670 kg

In that case, Georgia Skies/Pacific Wings will be the newest DCI carrier!! :D

Yes, you are right. However, Delta pilot's Scope caps the MGTOW of a Turbo Prop LOWER then a 70/76 seat RJ. I'm checking on it.

Are management skill more necessary at a major airline than at the regional airlines? I've worked at regional and major airlines and I don't think there is a difference in the skills needed.

It might help to analyze this if you could indicate the skills what skills are needed for a major airline pilot that are not needed for a regional airline pilot.

That sounds like a good idea. How can we make the regional flying go back to the mainlines?

More germane is will you complain if you do or sell yourself short for the long run in order not to?

TANSTAAFL........

How about starting with Compass?

So let me get this right....we're gonna swap 200's for new turboprops and not replace our existing TP fleet?

Or replace 200's with new TP's, get rid of the Saabs, then furlough all the excess pilots?

Either one sounds stupid enough to believe.

If the Q400 does in fact violate delta scope. By being too heavy of a turboprop. I could see DALPA using this as a bargaining tool to get Embraers or CRJ-900s back to mainline.

The Q400 is such a comfortable and efficient airplane I wouldn't be surprised if this is what is holding back the orders right now.

How would everyone at the DCI's feel about a 1 for 1 swap, Q400 for their large RJs?

I say bring it on and fatten up mainline with all the E175's and CR9's that they can stand. Throw some E190's in there as well.

As unrealistitc as it is I'd say DALPA try and force a 2-1 swap. 2 RJs of any size going to mainline for 1 Q400 going to the regionals. Let the Q-400s and the current trubo props fly truly regional routes instead of ATL-CVG or ATL-MDW etc. Grow the higher paying mainline jobs and crush the regional growth.

I say this as a regional guy who would get totally screwed by this type of growth at the majors and cuts at the regionals. I'd rather stay flight instructing or flying night cargo for a few extra years than get recalled by my regional. If I'm going to "pay my dues," I'd rather do it flight instructing or 135 night cargo flying than fly at the regionals. At least in that way I would have the possibility of a good career at the majors instead of a lousy/mediocre one that it looks like I'll be having at the regionals.

I'm sure that this had nothing to do with new hires going into a training program that had never had to deal with new hires before - and one that just happens to be the most diverse and complex operation in the airline.:rolleyes:

Most of the issues were on the 73N and the 88. The ones in the 767 were a little rough around the edges, but there were a lot more TRB on the other two jets.

It mostly had to do with attitude, not ability.

They are going going to bring the RJ's to mainline. DALPA does not see the benefit to it. Maybe some E-series jets, but that is even a stretch. DALPA wants a 100 seat jet and does not want to fight the economics of the smaller jets.
Sad but true

what he said...

agreed!!

..

News flash...you can't. That ship has set sail. Mainline pilots have opened their scope and no one is going to put that genie back in the bottle.

Right. That's my point. It would be nice if we could, but, we can't.

We may not be able to completely put the genie back, but we can limit regionals effectiveness by making it less profitable to use us. Every contract that comes up has to be a major improvement over the last one at the company. I think ASA's contract should be a benchmark for us all to shoot for. No one significantly below ASA...it should be the new average. PNCL, MESA, MESABA etc all have to come up to meet ASA. Then the leading contracts step out a little more. We cannot do it all at once, but little by little we raise our prices until we can price regionals out of expansion and move flying by economics back to mainline.
Someone will probably start a new regional, etc. if we try to do it too quickly with MESABA/PNCL/MESA type contract going from bottom to the top, but if we turn up the heat slowly, I think we can do it.

Well, that is actually happening right now. Too many people have decided to make the regionals their career. What this has done is make the regionals quite expensive. If this continues you will continue to see the demand for their party operators diminish.

Just watch what happens over the next three years and then the next 11. It is in effect why I would never make a regional my destination.

If you want to make a change do something. This is a backstabbing dying industry. We are a educated group destroyed by what was...should have been...should be stories.

Change is ridding ourselves of ALPA. No associations. Give me a union. One that will buck the trend. I've had several jobs, from Teamsters in a feed mill to military to the facade that is ALPA.

If you want this industry to return, action will be required. Prater is a joke. He cowers before DAL and knows the dynasty can crumble. Our leadership are not workers. They poorly defend us and wow, now for almost a decade we have been buying the let's take it back mantra. We are now part of an association run by buddy's, homer's and jokers. Richard Anderson is pulling all of our strings....But we know better....Right.

If we are serious, we would really "Take it back."

The last thing the DCI pilots want is for the Delta pilots to form thier own union. If that happened then you would see the Delta pilots treat you much like the AA pilots treat Eagle. With ALPA, at least you still have DFR.

Acl65pilot - would you get off this blame band wagon of "too many people making regionals their career." There are TONS of us who were unable to take advantage of the last mainline hiring boom. Not everyone was as lucky as you to time it perfectly.

For some guys it just wouldn't be wise to make the move, wether they are too old or too comfortable. Some regional carriers can actually be comfortable places to retire. I'm not saying I want to, or the majority want to, but there are a few whose mainline flying aspirations died a long time ago. Or for me personally, couldn't take advantage because I was an FO for 6 years, building TONS of invaluable SIC time.

Exactly what I said a year plus ago. The investors that got "bullied" to start up, and invest, in the ridiculous number of regionals was a bad bill of goods after mainline bankruptcy was complete. We are seeing it all over now.

Contraction takes time but the regionals are shrinking.

It's important to note that AA pilots and AE pilots are represented by two different and distinct unions. There is almost no contractural interface between the two anymore (a minor flowthu provision still being alive to some extent). The APA has zero obligation to AE pilots and vice versa.

I agree... I can see how a 40yr old regional captain right now can't make the move. By the time the next boom is comes he will have to start all over again in his mid 40's to climb a whole new seniority list. Some of the DL guys told me they have been on reserve for up to 10yrs. Can't blame them for not leaving... Especially if he/she has kids. I consider myself lucky that I am only 30 during this stagnate time.

This is not entirely true...mainline could regain their scope on 50-seaters at the bargaining table if they were willing to fly them for regional rates, and make minor concessions to sweeten the deal. Once all the flying is back under one list, they could start improving pay. It would be a long process but workable.

What makes it possible is the inherent short-sightedness of modern managers...they will take a small gain today without regard to the future long-term consequences. They will let whoever is CEO in 2020 worry about that.