Food for thought
 

Did anyone else noticed that today the federal Gov't raised the minimum wage? The new min wage is $7.25/hr. So think about it...I go and apply at McDonalds for a full time position. I need absolutely no skills or advanced training to swing a mop and empty trash for 8 hours a day. Lets say That I'm a real go getter and elect to work 5 hour shift each week to help ends meet. This time would be paid as over time premium of time and a half. I'm young have no real money so vacation time would be worthless so I take no Va-Ca. I would earn a cool $290.00 +$54 (overtime) per week. For 52 work weeks I would make $17,907.00/year. Add to this I would recieve two full meals free each day.

Now on the other hand I attend a university, graduate with a degree in anything and spend $50,000 to $100,000 on obtaining and ATP. I get a job at a regional with the hope of advancing to a major in 4-5 years.

My first year pay sitting reserve making minimum gaurantee is as follows

Commutair....$16,416
Cape Air.......$16,380
Colgan..........$18,900
Compass.......$21,600
Great lakes....$14,400
Go Jet..........$20,424
GIA..............$16,200
Mesaba.........$21,600
Piedmont.......$23,380
Pinnacle.........$21,900
Trans States...$18,480

Next tier
Eagle $22,500
ASA $20,700
Comair $19,800
ExpressJet $20,700
Mesa $17,100
Republic $20,700
SkyWest $19,800

Majors
AMR $30,660
CAL $28,272
DAL $43,680
UAL $27,720
US Air (E) $21,600
US Air (W) $34,560

And don't forget The Janitor swinging the mop makes about $18,000 and we get paid the above amounts. Kind of SAD when professional pilots are paid less than janitors and some Major airline first year FOs are paid just $3000-$10,000 more for their skills and levels of responsabilities

Just food for thought

Might want to show thise numbers during section 6 talks

ahhh i thought there was going to be food here.

oh well. and at mcdonalds you dont get your meals for free. you get emeals which are half off, ask me how i know!

You should see what a first year mechanic makes at some of these places. And these are the guys working on what you fly everyday:cool:

I guess it depends on the proprietor...all the McDs I worked at fed us well!

All meals were 50% off in the one year I endured at McDucks in high school :( No such thing as a free lunch. And the worst part was, you would go on break and something like hamburgers or nuggets or chicken fingers would "expire" after sitting there for 8 minutes and were we allowed to eat the food that was about to be dumped? :mad: Hell no. Starving kids in Africa would poop a brick if they knew how much food gets thrown away by fast food joints.

Where were your hookups, Carl?! I had the Latina ladies working the prep line wrapped around my finger, eating like a king :-D simply amazing that I'm not 400 pounds!

And yesssss the gross waste at a typical fast-food joint is out of this world :(

Jobs that pay similar to more than a regional airline pilot:
(Source careerbuilder.com)

Amusement and recreation attendants: $18,220
Cafeteria, food concession and coffee-shop counter attendants: $17,820
Cashiers: $18,360
Combined food preparation and serving workers, including fast food: $16,700
Dishwashers: $17,060
Fast-food cooks: $16,860
Maids: $19,550
Parking Lot Attendants: $19,320
Shampooers: $17,490
Gaming Dealers: $18,120
Laundry and Dry-Cleaning Workers: $19,570

This is all nonsense anyway, because this is only a stepping-stone :rolleyes:

I know what you said was tongue in cheek, but that is the point of the OP. I find it sad that we just accept this verses putting together a comprehensive report to the Aviation sub committee for when they have their hearings in which roger Cohen (RAA) shows up and says that it is the "industry standard". We are an industry that is controlled by the RLA and cannot deny service as a means of negotiating a fair wage for our highly skilled labor. If we had the same kind of board certification that doctors and lawyers had along with the FAA mandating all 121/135 pilots be board certified, wages would never be an issue. seniority can dictate schedules, holidays and vacation time but wages should be off the table. Uneducated, unskilled, and untrained workers making more than professional pilots is disgusting.

And are classified as "non-skilled" labor....:rolleyes:

Jeez... how do I become a Parking Lot Attendant? Is there a school for that?

The problem is supply and demand. There is almost an unlimited supply of unskilled, uneducated people in this country that have no choice but to take a job in the above list. The same problem goes for pilots. As long as there are more pilots that would rather fly an RJ for crap wages than fly a C172 as a flight instructor for crap wages, then you will see crap wages. The only way this will change is a shortage of pilots, stronger unions, or the government stepping in.

I see the government as our best bet. Go to the Call To Action link on the alpa main page. and fill out the form, it takes 5 mins and sends letters to your senators. Just click and done.

Baahhaahha!

The Government IS NOT GOING TO HELP US. They will help the great number of their constituents who want the world for $99 r/t. Don't be fooled.

The best part is, there IS NO $100K school you need!!

Last year I made so little I was eligible for food stamps...this year doesn't look much better.

The truth is that we all chose this profession. The days of the $250K per year with 20 days off per month airline pilot are gone. For the most part however, we all like what it is we do. I'm sure most of us wanted to be pilots since we were children. Management knows this, so they can exploit us and treat us poorly because there is a line of guy out the door who are itching for a chance to "live the dream" and are willing to do it for less. At the end of the day I am happy with the profession I chose. Nobody ever said "I want to work at McDonald's when I grow up!"

Compare second year pay at that fast food joint and at any of those airlines.... then compare 5 and 10 year pay at the same places.....

and FYI, Doctors don't make crap their first two years eaither typically....
even later, by the time they are done paying the costs of running an office with staff, they aren't making what they used to anymore either.
A typical Orthopod in the Boston area, if he/she still practices surgery, is paying around 250k per year just for the malpractice insurance.... then factor in the costs of their office, their secretary, in office nurse, their insurance and benefits, taxes and other associated overhead and while it may be true the Doctor brings in a ton of money a year, most of it goes right back out in related costs. For instance a family member of mine once told me, he LOST $5 dollars per patient on office visits. He billed out a small profit, and the insurance companies always paid less than what what billed resulting in the small loss. The office visits paid for everything except him...(office staff, office, related costs) and doing Cast Clinincs and Surgery is what let him recover the small office loss and put left over money in his pocket. He lived well, but nowhere near what people would expect when you told them he took in close to 800k per year.

can a day go by without anybody on here complaining. whine whine whine whine whine my ice cream is too cold whine whine whine whine. sniff....

Yea, I know its ridiculous but we sure as hell arent going to get to the pilot shortage everyone has been predicting for 30 years, and our unions are getting weaker by the day.

Well, we are not privileged enough to be "PIC", so until then, we will continue to complain about living in poverty. Deal with it, or don't post.

The low salaries has more to do with the deregulation of the aviation industry allowing to race to the bottom when it comes to ticket prices so that (yehaaaa!!) everyone can afford to fly...............@#$?!

We are paying same price for flying than 30 years ago while the money is worth a part of what it was worth back then.

We as pilots are now paying for everyones right to use the airplanes as a greyhound. What use to be luxury is now considered everyones right and prices are kept at a bottom because of that.

The industry went from producing a luxury product for them who could pay to a cheap product for all................

People (other than pilots) makes several times more than 30 years ago. That is why even Joe from the trailer park can afford to fly if he needs it instead of maybe buying the weekly beer amount.

There has always been more pilots than needed so talk about a demand /supply situation is wrong.

We are actually at a time when the least of Commercial pilots are being produced in aviation schools around the US. That has been a fact since 9/11.

There was such a shortage just 2 years ago that a pilot with a fresh commercial was getting hired into a jet. (Not seen very often before)

The shortage would be immediately back if the economi turns and aviation is known for suden spikes up and down.

Deregualition together with bankrupcy for most of the big majors erroded the pilot salary. The old boys at the Majors together with ALPA gave up pieces time after time after 9/11 to "save the Majors" instead of demanding the CEO's and other executives to give up their million dollar salaries.

Now that Major pilot salaries are less than 40% of what they use to be people claim it is demand and supply. Funny...............

There has always been a big difference between what Regionals paid and what Majors paid so if the Major pilot gives up 40% of his salary the Regionals will get away by paying way less to their starting pilots.

The Major pilots claim it is the Regional pilot destroying everything because they accept low salaries. At the same time these Major big shot pilots have accepted to work for 40% less payment since 9/11 just to keep the tickets at lowest levels ever and the CEOs salaries at the same high levels as always...........


There is much less difference now than what it used to be between what Regionals pay and what the lowest paying Majors pays a pilot the first year.

With the shortage of pilots 2 years ago it was easy and fast to become an airline pilot and that with the combination of the erroded salaries has taking down the pride for the job to lowest levels ever.

Major Pilots destroyed the salaries for everyone below them by giving up what took decades to get. That is why Regionals pay so low.

If a Major pays a starting FO 27k-35K to fly a 737 is it strange that a Regional can get away by paying 21K for a 50 Seat jet FO? That is pretty good pay per seat comparing with the Major. So who has been and is destroying the pilot salary?

I started in the early 90s and nobody would look at you if you had less than 1500 and 500 multi. It took me 3 years of building time after getting my CPL-ME before I could land my first job flying cargo in small planes and 10 years to get to a Jet. There was way more supply of unemployed pilots (thousends for every job available) but the salaries at the Majors or any other company did not go down because of that. Everything started going bad after 9/11.

Supply of unemployed pilots is low today comparing with the early 90s and it would be even lower if the change to 65 years for retirement that stoped most of 5 years retirement since it was implemented would not be a fact.

It was huge groups predicted to retire and the age was changed because the goverment the FAA and the aviation industry knew that it would be impossible to keep operating. The production of Commercial pilots was just a fraction of what was needed.

That situation will be a fact again in a couple of years.

You may or may not have done much better being a car mechanic at a dealership (depending on if your dealership closes down now)

The beer is too cold, my daiquiri's too fruitiful, the skies are too blue, life's so easy today...

we did get there, and then they cowtowed to the industry and got them a 5 year extension with age 65

So if that is what you want to do, go fill out an application, I think that they are hiring. Now, back to reality. Are you working where you are for there starting pay, or for the potential to advance your career at some point. Flipping burgers doesn't have near the potential that you do.

rotfl! you're defending it. that is absolutely hilarious.

the "PIC" referred to single pilot night cargo. if you consider making $13.47/duty hour, sitting airport reserve 7p-5a, M-F privileged, well..........

Oh forte, we are kings with the PIC pay! Ever since I got your spot in DPA life has been golden. I give you props for being braver than I to go to the regionals right now. Being that you are going from 36K guaranteed to what is it 20K guaranteed? Still, you gotta get that jet time somewhere and you and I arent gonna get that at USC. Might as well go for it, cause if the economy goes up and you can move up...You chose wisely. If the economy keeps going down we will probably both need new careers so we both chose stupidly.

Agreed. We're subsidizing the system.
Good point.

The squeaky wheel gets oil... Are we supposed to be happy if we have a job that pays crap because there are others who don't even have a job?? While I understand that counting our blessings is important, it is no excuse to accept what cards we have been dealt with a smile, JUST because others are less fortunate. We need to keep fighting until we get something reasonable for all, and set the bar higher. I know i'm tired of using my time away from work to calculate the money i'm going to save for buying the known name brand, or the store brand, even if it IS only a 30 cent difference.

lol, better than living under a bridge.

In case you haven't noticed, your post is complaining and whining too.

good one. tu che.

the battery life on your computer and the wireless card must be outstanding if youre living under a bridge and are still afforded the convenience of internet access.
you make no sense. just be a man and stop complaining. that goes for the rest of you queens. your lack of testosterone sickens me.

I think Riddle is offering a degree in that - it will cost you about $100K, but you'll have the comfort of knowing you attended the "Harvard of parking attendant schools."

The word is touche not tu che. I am not a spelling or grammar nazi but come on...if your gonna use a word at least try to be close in it spelling /usage. (If I was I would have included the accent mark on the e.)

The same goes for using...the point is mute....its MOOT.

arghh

Dern kidz thees dais ain't spelung nuthin' write ;)

Hey dude but whats really ironic is "tu che" is like saying " you dude" in argentinian slang

Or in Uruguayan slang;)