What would YOU take to leave
 

Just looking for opinions (not bashing, please)

Took up flying for fun and it has become a career change for me. I have been with a regional for about 3 years now as an F/O. Pay is a joke, away from home all the time....but I love to fly. Got offered to go back to my old job and pretty much pick up where I left off making close to 3 times what I make now. What would you do?
For the record, I am leaning toward leaving the airline industry but I am wondering if I am going to miss flying jets all that much or not. Wondering if anyone here has stories of friends leaving the airlines and then coming back after a few years. Or vice versa maybe, leaving and never regretting it, and have a much better life now. It would be a waste of my seniority to leave the airlines and find myself trying to make it back later. I am losing too much sleep over this decision!

Bid zero lines or part time lines at your airline if available and work full time at your previous job. You are still available for your flight benefits.

You will always miss some part of the job, and nostalgia will make you overlook the worst parts. But, a steady income with time at home, in a city of your choosing is hard to pass up. I would go for the stability and the chance to have or create a home life.

Agreed, go for the stability and paycheck. With 3 times the pay you can go rent a 172 and take friends/family out flying for fun. You can always be nostalgic and come to APC to remember the horrors of regional pilot life ;)

I'd take the job with the 3x more money, and use some of it to keep flying for fun....... buy a J3 Cub on floats and really have some fun........find a little part-time CFI job on the side, if you have the rating. As you get older, you will likely find that sleeping at home in your own bed and making a decent paycheck may tend to significantly outweigh the "fun and glamour" of flying a shiny RJ.

Agreed. This is what I did. Airline industry was tanking, I received my furlough notice and displacement notice and finally decided to cut my losses. I am part time CFI ing right now and in school working on something else completely.

I do miss the cockpit and miss the conversations at cruise. But I don't miss a plastic wrapped kiosk sandwich, dirty hotel rooms, commuting (arrgh), uncertainty for a future, etc AT ALL!

I think you'll find that if you can keep a steady diet of aviation in your life (2-3 hours a week min), then you'll find happiness and be able to focus on more important and more fulfilling activities.

I agree with everyone else on here. Flying RJ's isn't fun anyways. If you really want to have fun flying, go buy an older Citabria, Champ, or a Cub. That's real flying and real fun. I am looking for a way out of this industry. Being away from home 20+ days a month for the crap pay just isn't worth it!

Personally I'd go for the old job. Sure you'll miss flying but you won't miss all the horse-hockey that went with it. If I were in your shoes I'd take the old job and, like the rest have said, fly for fun. I'd love to have that opportunity myself.

Tell you what, when you start to miss it, someone here will call you up and pretend to be crew scheduling and junior man you to Keokuk, Iowa, where you can spend the night in a Motel 8 and have all those fond memories come flooding back to you. I'll buy you a gas station egg salad sandwich to round out the completeness of it all.

Fly
 

You have only so many years left in your life. How could you turn your back on two or three thousand ILS approaches that would would miss out on? Who would be there to watch the free HBO at the Holiday Inn? Wouldn't you miss the excitement of Getting up at 3:00AM?

Money is money. Friends and family grow on trees. Time at home is over rated. :D

Just kidding. :) Sure you would miss your airline job but the stuff you would gain is pretty significant. It is better to leave now when you still have some affection for the profession then to be stuck there a decade from now and kicking yourself.

Skyhigh

My cousin got furloughed from Alaska Airlines a year ago or so. He was hardcore into flying and loved flying the B737. He now lives where he wants, is home with his wife and baby EVERY night, and has a bigger and more steady paycheck. He won't even talk about the airlines anymore. It's a taboo subject in the house. He won't ever go back. He rents from a local FBO and loves life.
I agree with every one else on this thread. Quit and cut the losses.:cool:

Run - don't walk away from aviation. As soon as a better deal comes my way, I'm gone.

Peace, OUT!!!

I'm jealous of you. 11 years in, it gets no better, even when the pay goes up. This industry is BS.

Let us know how you do.

There is nothing wrong with aviation. There seenms to be lots wrong with the airlines; but advising someone to run away from aviation seems a little over stated.

USMCFLYR

Not to sound bitter or anything, but If you're a regional pilot right now, chances are your company is furloughing but you might not be junior enough to get F'ed but would be junior enough to have a crappy QOL. I'd take a voluntary furlough. If I can guess how long it will take for a recall, I'd say a minimum of one year, up to who knows how long. Go back to your old job, at least then you will have an option to get back in the airlines when they recall in year 2023.

I envy you.

The scope of that could be opened. There are good airline jobs (relatively), and bad airline jobs for the people employed. There are good corporate jobs and bad corporate jobs for those employed. There are good fractional jobs, and not so good fractional jobs.

For those in the good category, they will probably stay where they are, and realistically they have less to really complain about.

Sadly, those in the bad/not so good category don't have many options open to them right now of getting a better job.

Agree with all of the above - and again - those are just the passenger or cargo carrying jobs. There are different types of aviation jobs out there that don't involve P121/135 also that people enjoy. then of course there is the aviation experience that doesn't even involve flying for hire.As someone else mentioned on the thread I think - fly around for fun in a Citabria or Cub. As bad as the **business** of aviation is right now. I don't think it was accurate to advise someone to run away from AVIATION.

I'll tell you what though - this site, this forum, has opened my eyes much wider. I was never really consdiering the airline route myself as a second career, but after coming to this site to learn more about the business side of aviation - commercial aviation - I'm sure that I won't be finding myself flying 121 anytime soon! I like the saying that goes - " [airline] flying is a wonderful job and a lousy career".

There are very few jobs out there I will be considering soon and if none of those opportunities bear fruit then I'll be taking the advice of many on this thread and looking for a well paying *desk* job of some sort that will aloow me to feed the flying bug with weekend trips and sight-seeing!

USMCFLYR

What is important to YOU!
 

Aviation isn't the problem. What makes you happy? That's what is really important. I love aviation, and I love flying. I make a living doing it, but I have 5 different flying jobs in order to be able to do it. I fly on-demand part 135, 2 instructing gigs, and 2 owner aircraft. I turned down an offer at a regional for QOL. I am home 95% of the time and make alot better than I would at a regional, but I still GET to fly almost every day! Flying for me also started out as a hobby, but ended up as a second career. I made 6 figures before and hated the job. I would never go back.

Go to where they are still paying good money to do the gig i say!

Did you dislike your old job? 18 yrs in the industry now and on my 2nd furlough, and my kids now know me, I would stay home if I had a second career path.

Well, that's what I was trying to say. Undesirable jobs are everywhere, not just 121/135. And usually, it's just a paycheck till something better comes along. As far as the not flying for hire goes, it's a shame the hobby is so expensive. And yes, I know there are ways to make it not so expensive, but it's not cheap.

There are plenty of us that have had those thoughts along the way I'm sure. I know I have. And often times I wonder if it's a wonderful job. It can be a fun job sometimes, and I'll go so far as most times. But like a lot of other guys, there are times at work where the LAST place I want to be in locked up in a room the size of a closet with some other dude, only to be heading to the hotel later, to get 5-6 hours of sleep after a 12-14 hour day, hungry, only to do it again the next day, to be followed by going home on my days off feeling like garbage and trying to recover. No job is perfect, and surprisingly one man's trash can be another man's treasure.

I know, sounds like whining. But that's also the reality.

Always wise advise. But I'm sure you've been around long enough to know that being able to time the cycles and be able to take advantage of the opportunities isn't always there.

Take the other job offer while it's open. I passed a few interesting offers, then after my furlough notice arrived, mysteriously, all offers vanished.

The grass is always greener...

I'm curious, for the guys complaining how many of you are mid 20's and this was your first "career" out of college?

Working for corporate america in some middle management position isn't always that great either. At least at the airlines layoffs start at the bottom, corporate america usually start with the higher paid middle management, they always know they can replace them with some recent college grad for half the money. Office politics, ass kissing, etc. -- we don't have to deal with that at the airlines.

I did 4 years in the Military and then another 6 in corporate mangement before the airlines. Even with all of the airline BS, I have a way better QOL than any of the those other jobs. Way less stress, way less BS. -- I only speak to my immediate supervisor on average once a year - and I'm the one who initiates the conversation! Good luck with that in corporate america - budgets, staff meetings, trying to reach some impossible sales or production goal. If thats for you - have fun.


Maybe some you should join the military and spend a year or two over in Iraq or Afganistan for a little perspective.

Who says you've got to go work for corporate america? Go work for fed, state, and local gov. That's always an option if corporate America isn't someone's flavor. Just like in flying there just isn't 121, but all kinds of other options that might suit someone's needs. The same goes for the other side. Either way if someone paid me 3X what I made as a regional FO, I'd be all over it. Work is work wherever your at. As long as you have free time to spend and appreciate that mola you're gonna be making its worth it. Whether your doing it flying or not. A job does not define a person, if it does that person needs to get a life...

work for yourself. period.

I've posted about this before, I worked in the tech industry before coming to SKYW. In my case, the tech industry was a nightmare. 12 hours+ everyday in front of a computer screen, vacations always cancelled, worked weekends frequently, many deadlines to meet. Pay was good, buy really not leaps and bounds over captain's pay at a regional. Morale was pretty bad in the office place, lots of rounds of layoffs, with no seniority protection. You don't perform, or get paid too much, and you can count on being layed off on the next round.

Now granted my situation here at SKYW is different than alot of others. I got on at the right time, live very close to base, and have always managed to have relatively good seniority in my positions. I've only sat 1 month of reserve in 5 years. Pushing the EMB around, I only fly in Cali for the most part, the weather is great, and I get overnights at home during my trips. I also average about 15 days off per month. Basically, I got lucky, and I realize that. Seems that being in the right place at the right time in this job is what matters most. I know I would be singing a different tune if I were commuting to reserve across the country, with no upgrade in sight (which, if SKYW didn't call first, might have been a reality for me).

State and government jobs are under heavy fire right now as well. In Cali, many jobs are being eliminated, and the rest are taking furloughs and wage cuts. My brother who is a Math professor at a CSU is taking a 10% paycut, and he's lucky he didn't lose his job. Government jobs are not immune to the issues that plague the airlines, either....

I guess you were lucky enough not to have chosen to live "very close" to one of the many Cali bases that were closed....


That doesn't seem to do much for morale, even at SKYW!

I agree that many gov. jobs are under fire. But as you mentioned your brother is taking a 10% paycut. He isn't getting furloughed(except for the 3 days a month off they are taking) from the job. The Cali Highway Patrol is actually exempt from any of the cuts. There are good jobs and bad jobs anywhere whether private or public. Once again as others have mentioned its about timing.

Besides, if your brother was working for an airline he would've taken a 50% paycut and lost his pension too, instead of just a 10% paycut... <sarcasm>

The grass is always greener on the other side. I am in my mid twenties, this is my first career, and I could not be happier. My friends from college dread going to the office day after day and wish they could have a job like ours. If you are not happy flying, then get out. But if you love what you do, you can hardly call it work. Although I do hate commuting and early morning east coast shows.

Also, even doctors have something to fear these days. If Obama's health care plan is passed, many doctors will take a bigger pay cut than any pilot has seen.

Thanks everyone for your comments and opinions. I just got back from a three day trip and actually got to fly with a 8+ year captain. Basically, his opinions reflects the majority of opinions on this thread. He also explained to me what he has to look forward to when he finally makes it to a major airlines who knows when; back at the bottom, struggling financially for the first 2 years if he can ever make it that far before being furloughed, living like a gypsy again in crashpads like he was in college 12 years ago....the list goes on. I am realizing how fortunate I am to have a good paying job just waiting for me while the rest of the country is at a all time high in unemployment.
I will have to take the job and fly for fun on my own chord. Not when someone else tells me to. It is a bitter sweet decision.
But rather than being bitter about the industry, I will take the good experiences and grow from it. Because I have first hand knowledge, I will always respect all of you when I see you in the terminals again and realize the difficulties you are all being challenged with daily. Once a pilot, always a pilot in heart.:D

Fly safe my friends!

Had three friends quit, 2 over a year ago, one about 6 months ago. I know them very well and not one has ever mentioned regrets about leaving. my bud who left 6 mo.'s ago is now in a completely unrelated field and says he'll never go back fwiw

Good luck, and...........

.................. let us all know what kind of "fun flying" you end up doing!

It was my lifelong dream to become an airline pilot. Even to this day, I pause every time a jet flies over and it still sends chills. After a brief time spent in the 121 world though, I was desperately looking for ways to re enter a more normal life. Turns out that I have a serious addiction to food and family. Yes, there is life after the airlines. A very good life in fact. One without crew schedulers, airport security clowns, and below poverty wages. I now fly my very own PA38 and love every minute of it. I have re discovered my love for aviation and the time spent with my kids is invaluable. You may miss the takeoff and approach segments of 121 flying, but the other 99.8% of your time spent with the airlines/airports/TSA body cavity searches/ect will be easily put behind you. The regionals will continue to staff their RJs with starry eyed kids who can afford to pay to fly, but they will have to start supplying animal cookies and juice boxes in the crew meals. In other words, run, run as fast as you can for that other job. You will not regret it.

..........

There is a similar thread in the 'leaving the career' section. I wanted out after about 8 total years in the 121 world. After being furloughed after 9/11, I found a normal job. Did that for a while and when things picked up, I was recalled, and went back into the fray. It didn't take long for me to regret going back. I realized I wanted out for good. Well, I got lucky and a position opened up at my old non flying job.

I was once again living life. Much better pay, living in my hometown again, home every night, holidays off and at home, better benefits (pension!), liberal time off (4 day work week and oodles of vacation, comp, and personal time), etc. So far the economy resulted in a whopping 1% paycut, but balanced by an additional 4 days off per yr. to compensate. Oh, and an office job it's not.

The only things I miss are seeing the different cities, some of the people, and hand flying the plane. Otherwise life is great, better then it has ever been for me. I just wish I could get back all the time and money I dumped into flying.

Is there a possibility of taking a leave of absence at your airline? If so, you might could take that option and then go back to your old job. If you miss the flying you can alway return to the airline. Good luck.

Not sure why this has to be a political argument. Doctor's taking bigger paycuts than pilots? hahaha... yeeeeeah right. Maybe they'll be up to their armpits in paperwork(like the good ol' stack of trees the gate agent would hand us), but they'll still be driving their mercedes and range rovers.

During my short time at the airlines i lived in base, commuted, made captain, bought a house, got married, got downgraded, sold a house, moved back to my hometown (which was my base), and became a super junior FO with the possibility of a domicile displacement, luckily i was far enough up the list to not have to worry about a furlough.

I left the airlines 4 months ago for "greener pastures". Went from a 3rd year FO pay rate of 33/hr (TSA) to 54k/yr salary (still not as much as i made as a TSA CA). The only downer is that i no longer fly airplanes, but truth be told, the only parts of flying airplanes that i miss are takeoffs and landings, the rest was essentially filler to get you to the destination, and even the most interesting FO's or CA's aren't that fun to talk to for hour after hour after hour. I do miss a couple of the overnights (but the company took the good ones away before i even left...aka, Savannah (on the golf course), Moline (downtown rock island), Philly (back when we were downtown), etc. My current job at the desk is not overly interesting, infact, it's boring as heck most of the time, but, I no longer feel the stresses of (will we go on strike, will the company sell us out to gojet, will I pass this next checkride, will the feds violate me over something i overlooked, will i make it to the majors, will i get furloughed once i get there, will i get displaced, will i upgrade again, etc....all in all, those were causing a lot of gray hairs, and i think "for me" i've made the better decision. Anyway, it's 5:30 in the morning, and i should get to work...

Some love this career, some hate. Depends on where the luck falls.

Me personally, the first chance I get at a normal job making a decent wage outside of this rat race, I'm gone. I LOVE flying. I can't even describe the feeling I get from flying. But I HATE this career. I'm sick of it, and I've only been in it a bit longer that you (the OP). I hate displacements, I hate commuting, I hate reserve and I especially hate 6 on 2 off reserve blocks where I have to commute.

Would upgrading make life a bit better? Yes, in a lot of ways, but am I willing to do this for another 6 years to get there? I think in another 6 months I'm gonna rip my head off.

I started this month off with 3 uncommutable trips. Two 4 days and one 3 day. I slept in my bed with my wife 3 times in 3 weeks. I love flying...but I hate flying for a living.