pinnacle poll
 

here is a poll to show people where we are at. No one knows who you are (except for higny) and no one will threaten you to vote yes or no. Are you voting yes or no?

If I worked for 9E I'd vote no, I'll just right that here but not vote in the actual poll

While I am obviously a "transparent" person with my vote, I would encourage all pilots to take a few minutes to look at the executive summary and then the sections that matter to YOU the most. Take 30 mins and formulate your decision, then vote. Regardless of the outcome I will not harass anyone, but I will ask if you voted when you are complaining in ops and everyone has stopped listening.

Vote for what YOU feel about the TA, not the "what if's" or for what you fellow pilots are saying is popular or unpopular.

Personally, I voted no. If we shoot it down, I'll be happy b/c I think it's the right thing to do...If it passes, fine...I get a decent pay raise and a couple enhancements...(though reserve is terrible in the new TA).

Well I do hope you gentlemen try to get an industry leading contract. It would be a shame to witness a repeat of the Mesa Airlines debacle of a few months ago.

Best of luck,

The Stig.

Bet it passes.

IMAAAAAAAAAAAAA Piiiiiiilottttttttttttttttt

Sadly, I think it will pass.

Since the union released their estimations on signing bonuses (and a call hotline to get the actual calculated amount), I'm hearing people say they will vote 'yes'. The money is extremely tempting for some.

On our union message board there is a thread talking about low-time bridge program FOs who are expecting industry leading pay from the contract when they don't deserve it because Pinnacle did THEM a favor for hiring them with such low time. If we keep this mentality, we are only digging ourselves to a new low.

Reservists are being thrown under the bus with this TA and it is a complete shame. I don't know what else to say, other than I voted 'no'.

senior guys are definitely swayed toward voting yes, they will never be on reserve again, which is a very weak and sub-par section, their bonus is enormous, so they are on board there, and they get a pay raise, albeit, not much, but for those who have topped out at 15 yrs, they are happy to get something. on the other side, there is maybe a handful(4 or 5) FO's who think the lack of bonus for them is ok because they had their training paid for, hotel during training paid for, and got a little bit of a bonus for completing OE and 6 months with the company. Still the Senior guys are making off like bandits and anyone who has been with the company less than 3 years is getting shafted on this Bonus. The POS is not going to pass, i think the bonus method if anything has swayed on the fence guys to the NO.

What is the unions official stance on the bonus money. What is it meant to be? (retro for lost wages, or a bonus).

I just find it funny the people with 1-3 years seniority (the ones that complain the most) actually think they are entitled to more than the people who've suffered the longest. The W2 method is not fair. Gotta remember Pinnacle is a 'good ole boy' airline.

they have been calling it a bonus, which will be taxed incorrectly, should be retro for lost wages. they are no doubt some of the most junior guys are the ones complaining the most, but they are the future of this airline, they are the ones that are or will be working under the reserve rules, FO's are the ones who pay is below industry average, CA is pretty much on par with industry, and there are not a lot of 4+ yr FO's. Those who have been with the company during the entire amendable period should be rewarded the most, but the union is rewarding the bonus based on time with company overall, so much for UNITY.

Well if its not RETRO pay, then why should the FO's get more? Its a bonus, completely different than retro pay. The majority of CA's were FO's once and suffered on FO pay as well.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm getting shafted with this bonus check as well.

I'm don't understand how people have changed their vote based on the bonus check, as it has NOTHING to do with the WELL below industry average TA.

This discussion reminds me of a book I was reading a while back. It talked about how $2000 NOW, would be a lot more popular for people than $6,000 in 5 years. Too many people are looking at money now and don't look it in the future. Less money NOW makes you feel better than more money in the future. Behavioral finance is very interesting!

No wonder people can't retire.

The 401k priority as do by Wilson polling proves this. Young people do not understand the importance of saving money early on. I really don't want to work til age 65, do you?

It would be nice to be able to max out my 401k without having the contribute 30% of each pay check because of the horrible company match.

The reason why the 401k placed low is all the questions paired up 401 with health insurance- how many folks will take a health insurance hike for 401? None.

Reality now is 401 is low and unchanged but healtcare came up anyway (doubling in many areas). Awesome.

That brings me to another point that Wilson polling is basically worthless with the way the questions/answers were worded. I think I talked to them three times at least, but I don't recall if the 401k and health care stuff was paired up. I just remember the questions/answers available were junk.

Seems like the folks that are voting yes have the same reasonings that a scab gives for crossing a picket line. And so - the fall of our profession continues....

First of all - YOUR VOTE MATTERS!

Don't you dare not vote because you are lazy. That is the absolute worst thing you can do. Just go suck it up and vote.

Second - and this comes from a Pinnacle outsider, based on what I know, I'd say vote no. At Mesa, our TA passed by 9 votes. 9!!!!!! We were so close to not voting it in! But our apathetic pilot group just sat on their lazy butts and decided not to vote!

Look at the way your company has treated you in the past. How have they upheld your current agreement? At Mesa, they treated us like dirt, violated our CBA left and right, and made our lives miserable. Magically, when the TA came out, there were promises galore. Now that it was voted in (and believe me I voted no, and kept my receipt), it's back to the same old shenanigans - violations of the CBA all over the place, and our QOL is awful. So much for all these promises.

If this TA is not everything you wanted plus more, send it back. Don't give in. It's time we raise the bar for goodness sake.

Good luck Pinnacle guys. We're keeping you guys in our thoughts.

Are you for real? This is why the industry is going down hill, the self induced "My opinion is the only right one attitude:eek:, last time I checked a vote means a man is free to vote his conscience. Your statement of comparing someone who had a different opinion than you to a scab is just insane. At least they voted rather than sit on the fence and never do anything.....your statement is just sad......and so...the fall (ditto).............

I said the reasoning is the same. I'm not calling anyone a scab. I haven't met a yes-voter yet that will not fully admit that the TA is not good enough, but is "scared of what will happen if we vote no" or "it's just bad economic times" or "this secures larger airplanes for us down the road (at the industries worst pay and rules, mind you)."

Vote yes because you believe this is a good TA. Vote yes because you believe it's fair. Not because you're AFRAID. Not because "Oh well, I'll be getting a few bucks more per hour and a $15,000 bonus check and I'll never have to deal with reserve again so why do I care if reserve rules went consessionary?" If you're voting based on fear or the fact that 'you'll get yours and screw everyone else' then your reasoning is clouded and no different than what I mentioned before. This is why we're in this predicament today.

can we say hypocrite? "it's OK for me to vote no because it is not good for me, but it is not OK for you to vote yes because it is not good for me" :rolleyes:

do share these reasons with the rest of us......

whens it close?

probably whenever noseeums says it should! :D

The voting on the TA closes Thursday 9/24, 10 AM or PM, can't find the time on the union site

10am is the closing time

any word on how long it will take to know if this thing passed or failed?

Like I said, I have no problem with someone voting yes if they have an intelligent reason for doing so. I still haven't seen, read, or heard one YES VOTE argument that isn't completely submissive, fear-based, and/or based upon some rumor(s) that management is spreading. Sure this is a free choice process that everyone is entitled to; however, fear based decisions are stupid decisions and we didn't become the lowest paid people in our profession by chance or bad luck.

Not too long after... I will see what I can get and when... The last recall vote closed at 10am and by 10:15 the results were known. By mid-afternoon an email had been put together and sent out officially, I expect the same on Thurs.

to bad im flying thur, i would love to see the message board reactions

Why hasn't the MEC made a recommendation yet?

Didnt they already vote 5-3 for?

The MEC recommendation is "neutral". There is no recommend mec view, it's more of a "here, you figure it out".

Read the email that came out last week about the signing bonus, I think it was put in there.

they did. SE said their vote was "neutral"

I do think that MEC being neutral is good and important. Negotiations have been very long and frustrating. MEC needs to show the NMB that they also have "good faith" in negotiations. At this point, you guys have probably figured out what's good and bad. I personally hope this TA doesn't pass. You guys deserve better.

on the union message board someone posted that only 53% of the pilot group has voted. I dont know if this is true becasue i didnt think they could see that information until the ballot closes. If it is true, than please vote everyone! There is nothing worse than a non vote. If you are afraid of what people will think of you, dont be its confidential. Yes or no, vote by thursday!

The MEC can get the info on what percentage has voted, but that's all. They have NO IDEA as to what the 53+% has voted as an answer. It's rather standard to get an idea of how much they need to push to get people to vote. If 100% had voted there would be no need to keep pushing emails and such, with 53% it's desperately required.

the 53% snapshot was taken over a week prior to voting closing. I think we're reading way too much into that #, especially for a debateable TA. There were still several conf. calls and road shows to go at the time the snapshot was taken. I think at least 95% will vote in the end. Many are taking their time to recieve all info prior to voting...good thing I think.

Come on Pinnacle Pilots!!!!! You guys deserve better than this! This Mesa pilot recommends a NO vote for you guys! Keep on fighting.

i dont think 95% will vote but a more realistic percentage is around 75%

Does a non vote have meaning? I mean, in a vote to bring in a union, a non vote is counted as a "no" vote.

In this case its however many people vote they take the percentage of those people. I personally believe that in this case, people who just don't even vote are actually helping the NO vote crowd. Usually its the other way around but according to the union message board pool out of 400 or so votes, at least 70% are no votes so you know that all those people probably voted. That leaves only 300 or so more votes that the no people need.

I personally will be shocked if this thing passes. I am expecting about 70% no 30% yes.