B1900D Questions
 

I'm thinking about taking a leave to fly a 1900D for a small company (non-airline). Any 1900 drivers out there have any info on the AP/FD? Someone was telling me they don't have autopilot or coupler functions. Is this true? I've looked at some photos of the cockpit and it looks like it has rudimentary EFIS. It's hard to imagine this thing doesn't have some sort of autopilot.

If you can answer that plus list a few pros and cons it would help me make a decision.

Thanks

Why do you care? I would be asking quality of life, pay, and benefits questions. At the end of the day, those are the only things that matter.

I care because it all matters to me. It helps me make an informed decision. I already know about those things you already asked. No one on here can answer QOL, pay & benefits question for this company anyway.

Anybody care to actually help me out with a few helpful opinions?

Since your name is KINGAIRPIC I assume you have flown a King Air. The 1900 is the same thing.

Also, you can put an autopilot into almost anything. Does that 1900 have an autopilot? I have no idea. It was an option.

It's easy to fly. If you decide not to take the job do me a favor and give me the contact info. I could use a job!

Some of them do some dont. My airline only has 2 airframes with AP. The EFIS is very rudemetry ( Collins 84 ), but it is all you really need, and if it has AP it will be coupled to the FD panel above the EADI, ( in other words the AP is only there to follow whatever commands the FD gives it.)and it (FD) isnt coupled to the altitude alerter in non AP aircraft. In the case of our non-AP aircraft if you are flying the FD the pilot is basically the servo...lol:D. The AP itself is usually located on the center console about midway down by the Capt. right leg, if your using cockpit pics to locate it. The plane honestly doesnt need AP, because it trims hands free very easy, it is a joy to fly..just like your King air ( we call it a King Air Heavy). I know its ugly, but I love this plane....

Flew the 1900 for about 1000 hours in the 121 world. We did NOT have autopilot installed on ours, but I heard that autopilot is an option. I flew both the C and D models. The C had no glass at all. The D had a very basic EFIS. Since you are asking about the D I'll go more into it.

1. No AP on the ones I flew
2. FD was avail, but would not capture altitudes so was basically only useful in cruise or on an ILS.
3. We had no auto anything...no anti skid, no power steering, no FADEC or any other protection for the engines....no 1 button/1 knob engine starting...
4. Airplane is basic enough that if it is broke it is broke....it doesn't get confused like some other planes
5. Flies super stable once you get it trimmed out
6. Can hold a ton of ice
7. Once again noting is automatic so you have to turn on the ice protection. Boots don't have an auto mode you just pop em when the wing looks too scarey....on a side note the longer you let ice build up the better it breaks off....I never saw it truly "bridge", but if you blew the boots early not much ice came off.
8. Not sure if this is fleet wide or was more specific to my company but it was kinda common for one prop to go into ground idle during the flare if you hit idle before hitting the ground...that got fun fast.
9. Just remembered this and wish other planes I have flown had it...but you could preselect a course for the CDI and then when you got to the turn flip it to active and then you had time to set up your next turn.

All in all it was a good plane. It was easy to fly and straight forward. Was the only plane I flew that I felt was slightly overpowered which was nice. I would fly one again in a heart beat if the pay and QOL was right. V1 cuts were sporty....especially if they failed the autofeather as well.

Its been about 6 years since I flew the 1900, but thats pretty much what I remember about it.

Hey, thanks for the info! Left the King Air job about three years ago. Autopilot was terrible on that thing. I chose to hand fly. Was the best flying aircraft I've ever had the chance of putting my hands on. I still used to wish the AP functioned reliably on those longer legs. Especially when I was single pilot and digging out charts.

There is some interesting stuff in there. Thanks! Never heard of a prop going into ground idle in the flare. That would get interesting.

Thanks again!

Yup its happened to me once going into EYW, that'll get your attention real fast. Always keep torque in until your WOW....never flight idle at 2 feet, some of these birds will do this, so I just prefer to land with some power...

Sounds like it beats the hell out of the Junkstream I flew.

I have over 3000 hours in the 1900D and have never had a prop go into ground idle in the flair, except that one time my FO pulled the power levers over the gate into beta, obviously putting the props into ground fine which is even worse. Not saying that this is what you did Cornholio, just giving another perspective.

Now, the props will go into ground idle independently during touchdown in a crosswind. A way to counter this tendancy is to land with the props pulled slightly back, around 1550 RPM (full forward is 1700). This technique can be especially helpful when landing on an icy runway where one prop is in ground idle, while the other is momentarily still in flight idle making for an interesting slide down the runway. Just don't forget to throw those props full forward if you need reverse.

It happened occasionally where I worked. Not a bid deal, the airplane yaws, maybe you hit a little harder, it's not the end of the world if you know what the pedals on the floor do. It might not be full on ground idle, but the prop disc definitely goes flatter. Its a solenoid that sticks, the name of it isn't coming, it's been a while. A good mechanic can clean it up quick.

usually the culprit is the LO-PITCH SOLENOID...

Have a few thousand hours in the 1900D when they were still pretty new. What a blast to fly!!!! 240 kts on short final and still get off at the first turnoff with a nice landing. Most fun I have ever had flying an aircraft. I am envious of you if you get this job and it pays well. I passed up a position flying a corporate version for great money that even had a potty in place of the coat closet. Been kicking my self since.
Good luck!

The memories from reading this thread have been great.

I realize I probably wont fly the 1900 for my whole career, but I would not be upset if it worked out that way, awesome airplane....;)

I bet that was interesting. A little while before I got hired they had a guy go over the gate with both power levers during the flare (claimed he thought he had touched down) anyways he put both mains thru the wings so the training dept made sure no one would do that again.

It didn't happen often, but it was common enough that most guys would land with just a little bit of power to keep the props "off of the stops" I agree its not the end of the world, but when you are tired and its 445 am and you are landing a repo flight and you've never seen it before it definitely gets your attention. Throw in almost full rudder or bump up the power just a bit and it will straighten right out.

As far as the OP goes if you flew a King Air then the 1900 should just fly the same...(I have no King Air time, but everyone I know that has flown both says they fly the same).

Flew 2,600 hours on the 1900D with a charter outfit but ours where decked out, dual autopilots, dual rudder boost, dual GPS coupled to the FD, our had ALTS CAP but did not have VNAV capabilities and get this ours had fully fictional lavatories in the back that took about one third of the cargo bay and the access was in the middle of the isles with a sliding door (the center seat was removed) great airplane and I enjoyed it very much. All of that stuff is optional of course so the best thing would be for you to ask your potential employer how their airplanes are equipped

"fully fictional lavatories", for when you had to take a phantom leak Dominican...:D

My old time favorite about this a/c, the relay (can't remember name) in the center of the hump, right above the spar, that controlled the flap position. That POS got stuck just about every week in the winter. Learned to do power on flare/landings early on 'cause it liked to fail in the air at flap 0 the most. Will never forget the first time it got stuck after landing while retracting the flaps. It stopped at 20, we pulled up, people get out, MX guy comes out with a long 2x4 and starts wailing at the hump. Suddenly you hear it click and the flaps retract. 0 flaps t/o and ldgs the rest of that day. What a great plane!.

We were always cleaning them out they get full of grease and crap and dont energize properly, or at all.

And cant beat those -65's and -67 pratts on the 1900

Frontier Flying Service?

Yeah we have the 67's man what an engine, like another guy said this is one bird that is definately overpowerd which is a GOOD thing...Love it Love it, but it sure can be quirky for Mx...lol

In sectors like Punta Cana to Cancun or Puerto Plata to Isla Margarita, I can assure that it got used

Touche' Compatriota....

But I gotta ask this to clarify. Did you mean "fully FUNTIONAL lavatories"?. I.E. I like FICTIONAL novels because they're interesting. So, If i'm going from PUJ to CUN, I'd like to have a FUNTIONAL lavatory for me to use.
Btw, How are you?. Hope all is well.

The BE1900D is a piece of junk.

The Maintenance Manuals are full of errors (at least one fatal accidents list the manual as factors in the probable cause:mad:) and the systems are a weak at best. The printed circuit boards are a joke. Flaps have already been mentioned as well as the prop ground solenoid. The pressurization system is one of the worst I have seen. The landing gear warning horn is useless, they might as well have just made it go off all the time...... The EVA tubing is a joke. If you leave the props in feather while on the ground with engines running, the windows will melt out. It idles at an unbelievable high 67 to 72 % N1 to avoid ground resonance which makes it an absolute blast to taxi on slick surfaces. Best part, the props love to penetrate the fuselage in an incident or accident sequence. Do not sit in row 1 or 2!!!!! Of the 30 accidents listed in the database, the prop(s) penetrated the fuselage 6 times.:eek:

Oh yeah, they published an AD on the ailerons recently that had to be complied with but there was not enough parts for the operators to fix the issue. Beechcraft had to scramble and come up with an alternate means of compliance. Some aircraft had to sit on the ground for a week waiting for beechcraft to figure out what to do...

Beechcraft should have stayed out of the airline world.

I can't believe the Feds certified the airplane.:eek:

Edit ( If beechcraft would have spent a little more time addressing some of the issues described, they would have had a great airplane. But it seems rushed and not completely thought out. The -67 engines are great except for the high idle mentioned above.)

Don't listen to the guy above, sounds like he's never actually flown the thing. Ground fine/beta and reverse are all available on the ground for taxi, saved my @ss a few times in the snow.

Props going into ground fine was a problem at my old airline until the Raytheon engineers were finally called in to teach the mechanics how to properly service that little solenoid. After that there were no further problems. Imagine that.

Overall great airplane, I have ~2000 hours in it. Pressurization system is a bit meager though. IIRC, at FL250 you had a 9,600ft cabin. Not sure if a corporate version is any better.

Most common callout used in the 1900.......

"Guard the horn"...

man thats so true

Flew for over 2 years in the D. 2 years to long. Pleased to be out of it.

The airplane should handle well enough that the pilots shouldn't have to rely on reverse to save their bacon in the snow....(talking about the BE1900 not you Mike... I've been there as well....)

Well r1830 has a point... those are all issues with 1900s.

Actually come to think of it I can't believe the feds ever certified the 707, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, A300, A310, A319, A320, A330, A340, A380, Cessna 177, Cessna 210, Cessna 340, Cessna 402, Cessna 421A/B/C... the list goes on, frankly I can't believe any aircraft that had an AD (for that matter) ever being certified in the first place.

At out stations as the FO I would have to go back and jump up and down on the hump in lieu of a mechanic with a 2x4. Good times! Never got to do it with pax, I would have loved to see their faces... or maybe not!

What AD was this?

Oh man, I did that too once or twice. Great memories:)

:oSorry, was not an AD but a mandatory service bulletin for cracking of the aileron balance weight clip.

From Hawker Beechcraft

Type Service Bulletin
M-R-O Mandatory
Pub Number SB 27-3928
Title Flight Controls - Aileron Balance Weight Clip Inspection
Effectivity (a) Civil - Model 1900C Airliner, Serials UC-1 through UC-174; Model 1900D Airliner, Serials UE-1 through UE-439. (b) Military - Model 1900C (C-12J), Airliner, Serials UD-1 through UD-6.
Date June 2009

Never flew one, but looks like fun! : )

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photoga...0_goes_low.wmv

I am realistic about AD's. I never suggested that an aircraft shouldn't be certified because they have an AD issued. Nobody is perfect (including me), but I was hoping for a little better quality from a manufacturer like Beechcraft.

ADs are an invaluable safety tool that has prevented more accidents from occurring. I misspoke earlier and said it was an AD. It was a mandatory service bulletin. I just found it interesting that Beechcraft would come out with a mandatory fix without making sure there was enough hardware available for the operators to complete the repair. As a result operators had aircraft sitting in hangars torn apart while the engineers decided what other more readily available parts could be substituted.

On another interesting note....
The Baron and King Air had issues with the elevator trim freezing up at high altitudes. They put out a Safety Communique on May of 1981 that was titled "ELEVATOR TRIM TAB FREEZING- EXPOSURE OF AIRCRAFT TO HIGH PRESSURE SOAP-AND-WATER WASHING AND INTENSE RAIN" found at:

http://www.hawkerbeechcraft.com/serv...afetycomms.pdf on page 6 of 20

SC 057 - Elevator Trim Tab Freezing - Exposure of
Aircraft to High-Pressure Soap-And-Water
Washing and Intense Rain
30 May 1981 All Beechcraft Airplanes

Once they built the 1900C which flew in 1982, they applied that safety communique to it. Then the 1900D was introduced in 1991 and they did the same thing. If you search the 1900D Safety communique database, SC 057 comes up even though it was dated 10 years prior to the 1900D ever flying. Instead of addressing/fixing the issue, the just used an old safety communique...

For other relevant info on the 1900D see previous thread in the technical section.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/te...tml#post536115

Nope..Colgan. Back in the day when they were super serious about having everything outstation based and we had just picked up SHD. They used to repo a plane from HEF/MNZ which ever you want to call it to SHD. The show time in HEF was an awesome 0345. Would do a crew swap in IAD around 1600 and get to drive a minivan from IAD to HEF where you finally got to pick up your car. Nightshift drove to IAD then picked up the plane did a few legs and repo'd it from SHD to HEF at the end of the day. Good times had by all.

Did you get in when that had that small hiring window in which "cowboys" were allowed in? Most times they were not looking for "cowboys", and they were asked to go somewhere else.

Pilot in A&P school, ouch dont tell me your that guy.......... Go work on 135 cargo 1900's UB's with bladders that will put some hair on your nuts.

and 1900C UC serials has the wet wing too.

The 1900 is definately not a piece of junk, though I do agree that Raytheon should have stayed clear of the airline world. King Airs are great airplanes, but they're not designed to fly 12-14 legs a day.

There are some definate weak points, the pressurization topping the list. The urban legend I heard was that Raytheon took two Be-200 environmental systems, screwed them together, and put them in the 1900. Probably not true, but it seems about right. For the original poster, just know that the pressurization is very very touchy.

Also, the circuit boards do seem to be prone to failure. Although, I tend to believe on a well maintained corporate aircraft this wouldn't be an issue.

The fuselage area adjacent to the propellers are reinforced, but yes a propeller will penetrate through it. I've personally seen it on an aircraft we had that slid off the runway and through some approach lights a few years ago. The piece of the prop was probably two feet by 4-5 inches and it punctured through the reinforced skin.

Lastly, the aileron counterweight issue. On our fleet, I believe the number is somewhere around 30% of the ailerons had issues where the clips that hold the counterweight had broken. Even if the all the clips were to fail, the counterweight cannot physically move very far within the aileron itself. So it may through off the feel though the yoke a little, but it wouldn't necessarily be a dangerous situation.