My reaction to your original post would have been much different if you had said something like;

"I worked as a ALPA volunteer for over a year. I became disappointed in what I saw as communication failures between the MEC and the membership. I felt that there was more that could be done to get a better contract."

What you said was, "I don't like paying money to those scumbags."

Two very different messages. I have not met any ALPA "scumbags". I do not expect any organization made up of humans to be perfect. Our profession is suffering under the effects of consistent pressure by employers, market forces, and the recent crash of the economy. We live in a nation hostile to unions and workers. Gains by either are incremental at best. I know that the only organization looking out for us is ALPA. We have much work to do to reverse the declines that began in the Reagan era and continued through the Bushes.

Thank you for volunteering your time and talents. I hope you will get back in the fight soon.

The Dash Whisperer

I probably shouldn't have said "scumbags," but it slipped out. I'm angry and bitter... more so now after this MEC meeting that just finished yesterday. They made some more very poor choices from what I understand. I should have said something like "I don't feel like paying any more money to the MEC until we have some new people in there who are working to create positive change through effective leadership, diligent communication and tireless negotiations." Or something to that effect.

So, I take it PBS will not go to a vote?

I hope you and the 400 others who voted with you are going to initiate a recall of reps if this is the case. I can't understand how almost 1/2 the pilot group voted against the last TA, but this same 49% of the group can't seem to get behind a recall effort.

If PBS is so hated @ Mesa, why can't all those pilots who hate it get anything done? Internet forum talk can be used to stir up support, but the action in the votes and attendance @ ALPA gatherings needs to follow or its all just talk.

Is it possible that those that dislike PBS are merely the vocal minority?

I'm not sure sniper (about your last question). Every person I've flown with in the past month and a half has disliked it and wants it gone. I find it hard to believe that all the vocal ones fly with me. I believe it's more than just a vocal minority. The problem is that you know how the pilots at mesa are... they just don't care - and won't do anything about it.

I told the MEC yesterday if they did in fact vote to keep PBS (and I stressed the point I wanted it to go to the pilots for a vote) I would begin researching the recall process. I don't know anything about it, but I've started making calls today to begin the process. If you (or anyone else) knows the process, I'd be grateful to hear what you know and I'm willing to do it too. I wasn't just blowing smoke up their noses either... I meant what I said.

From what I understand (and I haven't gotten confirmation about this) PBS was voted to be kept for right now. Apparently they are going to try to get an LOA for more language governing it, and if they can't do that they will pull the plug on it before January which is the end of our time limit on pulling it. I have a hard time believing they will get anything done. They've been working on this "QOL LOA" for a long long time. That was voted in from what I understand. AM (he owns a restaurant in Chicago and is VERY vocal) is the new negotiating chairman (lol).

I guess I'm going to have to work hard at this recall process and getting the pilots rounded up for meetings. I'll have to start printing fliers reminding them of the LEC meetings, reminding them to call their reps, etc. I'm sick of it Sniper, and it's time something gets done about it.

I'm amazed any union would think PBS is a benefit. It completely obscures the scheduling process...

And NavTech sucks. I can only imagine what "other" versions of PBS are running around out there if MAG thinks it's an amazing product. If anyone is ever asked if they want to implement PBS, a healthy "No" should be immediately replied.

New? Not so much, he's been on that committee for nearly his entire career at Mesa. He too, needs to be replaced with someone new.

No no, not Albert. Angelo. haha

Edit: I didn't even think that our last negotiating chair had the same initials as the new one. This is going to make the APC initials game harder to play. Cripes.

AM 'the greek' will get things done.

So, to recall LEC folks, here's how to do it, if you're serious (this is all in the ALPA bylaws, BTW).

In simple terms:D:
As a member of the LEC, you can put an item on the LEC agenda by sending a written request to include the agenda item to the LEC Chairman. The item should be, in this case "Recall of local council representative 'John Doe' and 'Jayne Doe'", if you intend to recall both the LEC reps. Just one, put only 1 name.

You need to submit this at least 16 days before the meeting, so that the LEC can have 15 days to send a written notice to all the LEC members in the mail.

If the LEC refuses to call an LEC meeting, knowing that they're gonna' be nailed with a recall (they're required to have one every 4 months), you can force them to call a "Special LEC Meeting". To do this, you have to collect the signatures of at least 30% of the LEC's Active members in good standing requesting a special LEC meeting (put the request for a "Special LEC Meeting" and the agenda items, as detailed above, for the meeting on the top of a sheet of paper, then have everyone sign below) then send the request with signatures to the LEC Chairman. The LEC Chairman needs to get this request @ least 65 days before you want the meeting to happen (15 days for the LEC Chair to tell the LEC VP-A/Sec. Treas. to schedule a meeting, 5 days of 'fudge factor' for the LEC VP-A to notify the LEC Chair of the meeting, and then 45 days for the meeting to actually occur).

In other words, you need to collect signatures ASAP to get the LEC folks recall vote to happen before the end of December. And this needs to be done in each LEC.

You might want to look into proxy votes (one pilot attends, votes for other pilots) too, since LEC meetings are poorly attended often times. Each proxy has to be in writing, has to be for a specific vote (the recall of the LEC rep, so you'll need 2 proxies if you are recalling both LEC reps), and you can't hold more than 3 proxies per person (1 person can vote for themselves and 3 buddies, but no more).

Good luck. This works for any ALPA carrier, BTW, not just Mesa.

Well well well, coincidentally, we have an LEC meeting in ORD (my council) on October 20th. I'll have to get busy. Now - does the agenda item have to be all that formal legal written jargon? I've never written one before.

And I take it that I cannot recall a rep from another council either can I? Believe me there are plenty of people who are willing to do it in other councils, it's just going to be a bit of a group effort here I guess.

Thanks for the info. That's a good start.

You've got 2 days, as I recon', to send your agenda item. I suggest certified mail or some other way to prove it was received.

Doesn't have to, but why give them an excuse to throw it out.

Nope. Each LEC rep is responsible to their own council only. Their own council has to take it upon themselves to change things.

I did read about a PBS vote going to the pilot group though, so, it looks like you may get a second bite @ the PBS rotten apple. Nothing like a potential re-call to keep a fire lit under the reps, though it does create a bit of distrust and lack of unity - so I would be careful about frivolous use of the recall threat just to hassle LEC reps, especially during contract negotiations. Don't do it unless you're serious, and think the majority of the LEC actually wants change, not just you and your buddies.