Has ALPA done anything for you EVER?
 

It seems to me they cant fix a cup of coffee.
With all the issues at the regional level, isnt it THEIR responsibility?

Why havent they done anything, and why does everyone keep paying their dues?

They've (we, it is our money) provided me with some great pizza lunches.

they advocated age 65 so I could spend an extra 5 years at my regional, that was cool

Well, I got the free pizza, a lanyard, the extra five years at a regional, two furloughs, first year pay... but to be fair... Block or Better, Min Day, No more than 14 hours scheduled. Not an awesome trade but hey, I've never actually made it to a dues paying year....

CASS will be nice to have.

Plus Hoffa doesn't have my address and my flight schedule.

Yes the sweet 65 rule. I do believe that falls under the term of self serving for ALPA.

Alpa
 

ALPA has managed an orderly retreat.

Skyhigh

ALPA bought me a cup of coffee at Starbucks in SLC once when they were making the SKW push.

I get paid if I call in fatigued.

ALPA savagely negotiated a $22/hr first year pay at my airline.

Your colleagues at your own airline negotiated that for you...

So much blame toward ALPA as if it was some mythical entity, and yet so little recognition that ALPA is not just its elected/volunteer leadership but rather every single member that has a card and wears a pin. Everybody wants milk and honey to flow to them simply because they're union, but nobody wants to make any personal sacrifices in order to achieve it.

YOU are ALPA...if you don't like what is going on (and there's plenty to not like) you've got two choices...complain on the interwebs or ditch your apathy and actually start working to better things.

Great line of thinking "Boiler", tried that but there's one small problem...ALPA says "thanks, but no thanks while you're furloughed". Kind of a Catch 22, eh? I'd like to help make things better for the pilot group, and maybe get some furloughees back, but not until you're recalled from furlough.

Honest question: if you're furloughed, what do you expect ALPA to do for you?

Honest answer: I'm telling you I called ALPA to fill a position where I live, so I could do for you, and was told thanks anyway!

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Maybe its because I haven't had my cup of coffee yet...

Are you saying you applied for a job working at ALPA National and they weren't interested in considering you for employment?

BTW, hope you don't get the impression I'm pinging you.

I called ALPA Nat'l to fill a volunteer position in my area, since I have background in field. Then asked if I could help out on local level for another volunteer position, and was given the same answer. That's all!

Maybe other carriers contracts are worded differently. At mine, if you worked for ALPA before furlough, it seems some people retained those positions.

I gotta sticker and a pin, everything I hoped for and more!

1. ALPA aeromedical kept me from being grounded by a irregular EKG found on a physical.

2. ALPA national and it's lawyers helped 9E pilots file a grievance against the company worth millions when the company elected to swap 401K providers and not tell anyone. This grievance gets heard in December.

That's where "personal" lies for me, the national dept is an amazing resource to have at your disposal if you are doing union work. From legal to technical to pros in various fields that will call you personally at no cost to you its a pretty good thing. That being said a union is only as good as it's members and the leaders they elect. If you have an apathetic group and pilots running uncontested for important spots you can't expect to have a membership happy with the results.

I never said ALPA doesn't have flaws though- because they do. Prater actually reads this board (at least he told me he did and knew me by my username) so let em have it. If members don't tell leaders the problems nothing gets fixed.

ALPA has gotten so big now that their scope encompasses such a number of pilot groups that conflicts of interest are bound to exist. Rightly so, the lean seems to be towards the majors. Someone has to get the short end of the stick.

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure we don't get paid. Even after the Colgan deal calling in fatigued is not looked upon kindly at my place of employement.

They bring me breakfast in bed every morning... are they not doing this for everybody?

• Days off went from 104/year to 132/year.
• Segment pay became block or better pay.
• Cancellation pay came into existence.
• Harassment and intimidation aimed at preventing any use of sick leave has been fought tenaciously.

Thanks ALPA!

"Personal Sacrifices"? I'd say the 2% of my paycheck they take counts as a sacrifice. If I am expected to pay someone to work on my behalf and then volunteer in my off time, I'd rather just cut out the middle man.

Don't feel too bad for the guys at ALPA. Our dues buy their trips from the company so they can be at home every night in their own beds. They also get to play pilot once in a while too.

Well, why don't you grab one of those cushy jobs for yourself? If it is such a gravy train, run for election as an ALPA officer.

No thanks. In case you haven't figured it out yet, the guys at ALPA are politicians. Look at Prater. He reeks of a cheap used car salesman politician. I hate politicians. The higher up they get the bigger d bags they are.

I would rather keep my 2% and negotiate my own wage just like I did at every other job I had before I became an airline pilot.

I'm not talking about dues.

I'm talking about being an actual union member and actively participating in the collective bargaining process...instead of sitting on the sideline, chucking rocks at your elected/volunteer reps for unmet expectations and somehow thinking your dues money entitles you to anything other than the negotiated CBA you already enjoy and take for granted.

I'm talking about taking risks - individual members within each pilot group making the conscience decision to take the required professional and personal risks that are necessary if one really wants to gain any tangible benefits. Are you willing to take any risk beyond a dues checkoff to help better yourself and your colleagues?

One pilot, or a handful of pilots, or even a large group of pilots can't do anything if their group as a whole is apathetic...and in my previous experience as an ALPA volunteer apathy is the single biggest problem airline pilots as a whole and pilot groups as individuals face, even moreso than bankruptcy proceedings or "evil" management.

I'm sure you would...and I'm sure airline management would find you worthy of better benefits & compensation than anybody else at your airline in the same seat and longevity.

I'd suggest if you're unhappy with the slow process of airline collective bargaining (which isn't hasn't exactly been a secret over the last couple decades) that you go back to any other job you had before you became an airline pilot. Or, leave the airlines and get a job in business aviation where you're worth whatever you can negotiate for yourself.

Good luck, regardless of which path you decide to pursue...

ALPA is slowly losing the battle against greed and mismanagement. Airline managers are accomplishing their goals through tactics such as whipsaw and outsourcing. These tactics only work when ignorant, apathetic, uninformed pilots allow them to exist.


Although I have a lot of complaints against ALPA myself, here is something ALPA has done for you:

Successorship
Scope
Scheduled or Actual
Cancellation Pay
Premium Pay
Min Bid Guarantee
Lodging
Transportation
Uniforms
Parking
Moving Expenses
Deadhead Pay
Vacation
Sick Leave
Leaves of Absence
Medical Leave
Military Leave
Association Leave
Funeral Leave
Jury Duty
Training Bid
Paid Training
Rest Requirements
Preferential Bidding
Schedule Adjustment Period
Golden Days
FLiCA (Swaps, Drops, Trades, Etc.)
Call Me First/Call Me Last
Minimum Ready Reserve Pay
Seniority
Recall from Furlough
Grievances
System Board of Adjustment
Health Insurance
Etcetera...

This list doesn't include practically every airline safety feature ever introduced in the history of airlines. Believe me, there would be no airlines without ALPA.


Ask yourself which ones you could live without...


winglet

I know ALPA has accomplished a hell of a lot in the past and still continues to accomplish little things here and there but I really think it's time for some MAJOR changes in the profession. National seniority list comes to mind. My current carrier had almost no union representation when I arrived and now is represented by the UTU. My last carrier was represented by ALPA. Did I notice a difference in the way things work? Yes, but only because my current company's contract is complete crap. That is not a function of being represented by somebody other than ALPA, it's a function of the type of job it used to be where nobody stayed long and nobody cared to change things because they were leaving soon anyway. So, what has ALPA done for me? I can give 2 truthful answers: A lot....and not enough. (I understand their hands are tied in many cases by the RLA though)

Military leave? The government requires that airlines allow you to leave for military service and return to your previous position. ALPA didn't do that.

Seniority? Ha! That is the single thing that screws us the most. The golden handcuffs. Management exploits every single minute of every single day the fact that you quit to go to another airline because then you would have to start at the bottom again. If I were able to take my experience wit me and get paid for it I would gladly give up "seniority".

If you want to see the pay and work rules change literaly over night, then get rid of seniority or create a natioal seniority list. If we starve the airlines of pilots by leaving and going to better airlines, they will be forced to change immediately or go out of business. The alternative is you are in negotiations for 5 years or more like Pinnacle. So who do we have to thank for our current "seniority" system? ALPA. Gee thanks.

You asked what we can live without?
Sorry, but the rosources at ALPA are fantastic, they are just beholden to those who pay more in dues as a perentage of pay and probably rightfully so.

And BTW, not trying to start something, just may be offer differing view, and possibly make a couple people chuckle

The MEC at the old job worked a deal with another MEC to get our resumes to the top of the stack as the old company shut down. That was worth a couple months dues. Plus support for grievances. And a pretty good chuck of change out of the old companiy's liquidation. Note that all of these things came from work by the local MEC. As BoilerUp said, it's the local folks that get stuff done. If you just expect stuff to rain on you from Herdon, you don't understand the game. I stayed away from the politics and just did stuff on the safety side. But unfortunately we need the political folks too.

This particular 'participate' argument is really wearing on me. I have chosen folks who are supposed to be willing and able-minded persons who have the desire to engage in ALPA duties. Where do they go and why are they not representing me? What happens along the way? I see picture after picture of pilots huddled around laptop computers and powerpoint presentations within the pages of the ALPA Propaganda Monthly (i.e. Airline Pilot Magazine) attending meetings. What's becoming of that? If you were to take everything you read in that magazine at face value, you'd think we were all sticking to the government, management and burning all of our leftover cash in your backyard. 'Taking it back'. TAKING WHAT BACK!? And for WHOM?

I got legal representation, and a heap of a lot of help from different teams within ALPA when I had some unanticipated problems with my company. It made a very stressful situation that could have quickly evolved/manipulated into a career-killer into rightful exoneration. That was worth every dues payment I have made. The outcome would have been a lot different otherwise.

they bought five guys at IAD once... i promptly ordered enough food for about 5 people and left it on the counter. sinners

betchya prater flys around on netjets.

I would much rather address a mil Leave issue with my ALPA rep than file a federal complaint under the USERRA act. There are guys in unrepresented professions losing jobs over mil leave because Uncle Sam doesn't want to spend the money to pursue a case, or the case takes so long to settle that it doesn't help the employee get reemployed before he has no choice but to get a new job to pay the bills.

Wow. You sure showed them.

made myself feel better and thats all i really care about. you colgan smarties actually wanted to join the alpa party.

I apologize if this thread offended you or was in anyway inflamitory, I will tone it down.

Actually that's an incorrect statement and assumption. ALPA is an association, made up of not just national, but the Master Executive Councils and Local Executive Councils, along with the individual committees representing the different areas encompassed by the union (aeromedical, safety, contract enforcement, etc.). The point is, although ALPA national is a political entity that represents the organization as a whole, it is the individual MECs, LECs, and respective negotiating committees that negotiate on behalf of their particular pilot group at each airline, not national. If you were familiar with the ALPA bylaws you would also know that any agenda brought forward by national has to be voted on and approved at the MEC and LEC level at the very least. So again, I recommend doing some reading, Flying the Line I and II are a great start. I believe you're basing your assumption in that many airlines both major and regional are represented by ALPA, but again, you have to understand the infrastructure, to know that such statement is simply not true.