ASA IAD/ORD Displacement
 

I am curious to see what happens with the United flying out of ORD/IAD. I am curious to see how many people want to go to ORD/IAD, and how many are going to go forcefully. Do you think there are going to be enough people that hate Atlanta that both bases will be senior enough that the guys on the bottom of the seniority list don't get sent up north?

Are you guys opening a IAD and ORD base? I thought it was only IAD?

Me too....this is the first I've heard about ORD???

As of right now, SH says as of the beginning of 2010, IAD will be the only base. ORD may come later, or maybe another city served by our Delta Connection service.

Displacements? Maybe a few but when people see the 30 most junior captains and the guy who is 30 from the bottom holding the number one line in IAD, domicile bids will change. My guess is a few senior guys, a bunch of the 6-8 year guys and few from the bottom. As for the right seat, well, who cares!

Um, me and the 50 others at the bottom of the list....

SilverandSore must be in our current ALPA Leadership.

if you were a lions fan you would be ****ed at the world also

I agree with SilverandSore's prediction. IAD will be a few senior pilots in both seats (the "Anywhere But Atlanta" crowd), a bunch of senior FOs chasing upgrade, then a bunch of junior FOs who got displaced.

I doubt there will be an ORD base, but if there is, I'm all over it. IAD will be mostly junior, but ORD will go way senior. We have lots of pilots from the upper Midwest who will want to quit commuting (for a while).

Ohh, did I hurt some feelings? The same logic applies to the right seat, there, do you feel better?

The lions are the worst team in any sport anywhere in the world.

http://3.media.tumblr.com/2jM3TJNE2i...nDQMo1_250.jpg

As Al Bundy use to say, "If you loose to the Lions, you are thrown out of the league."

Or did he say if you LOSE to the lions..............

You can't loose something. You can loosen things however.

I am offended!!!!!!! :)

The NFL is trying to help the Lions out through a mentoring program :p

NFL Players Mentor Troubled Detroit Lions | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

What was the topic of this thread again?

Who cares.

I think the title is How many professional 'educated' Airline Pilots don't know how the spell the word L-O-S-E.

How will this affect recalls for furloughed pilots? I saw they didn't expect recalls... but with a new base won't we be short.. reserves, etc... :) Just really excited to maybe fly again!!!

i think for once SH was pretty spot on. Not much or nothing right now, but with a block hour increase or more flying, definitely. It's only October so wait and see. Any way you slice it, overall prospect of recalls are better now than they were this time last week. Take it for what it's worth, although you'll have the usual suspects come on and tell you recalls wont happen til 2012 or never, which might be spot on if the world ends in 2012.

There was an email stating that there will be no recalls in 2010 unless block hours go up significantly. Don't get me wrong, the new flying and new base will definitely help the furloughed guys but it won't result in recalls for awhile.

- We might have PBS coming soon, that could be up to 10% reduction in the number of pilots required (if other pilots who fly under PBS are to be believed)
- We are currently staffed for these aircraft (technically overstaffed by 6 planes unless we find a homes for them)
- The ATRs are gone so we are still slightly overstaffed since we had them when we stopped hiring

This will shorten the recall times but don't get your hopes up. Maybe if we have another wild summer like we just did we could see some people recalled. There are a lot of variables that go into staffing, however I don't think they would have furloughed the last group if they thought they might be needed again in 9 months (spring 2010). That wouldn't have been cost effective for the company.

Thanks!!! :D

Don't forget, the UAL Mesa flying is still up for bids.

Doesn't Mesa currently fly 26 CRJs for UA? How many CRJs does Inc. have sitting around? There are 6 ASA birds for sure, anymore out there?

With all of Delta's talk about eliminating 50 seaters, I'm sure that if ASA went to them and said they found flying, could DAL release them, they'd go so gladly. The only reason we haven't seen more 50 seat cuts at ASA is that with the contract between SKW, INC and DAL, they have to negotiate the 80% instead of just doing it unilaterally like at CMR. They'd gladly let that go if JA asked them to.

Maybe something might happen with this and another 2 for 1 swap?

Whatever will trash the company's staffing forecasts is what I want to see.

Hate to say it, but our company doesn't necessarily have the best crew schedulers in the world. . .and opening up a new base is going to be one hell of a crazy ride.

PBS passage though, well. . .yeah - peace out on a recall for two to three years (65 retirements hit). If that's the case, then I'll be delighted to be invited to an Eagle class next spring.

I kind of doubt that. I can see ASA "broadening their horizons" away from Delta. It's no secret that Delta's fickle, unreliable schedules, and take it or leave it attitude have taken a toll on everyone. Not to mention that having all of our eggs in one basket is bad.

I predict we see a gradual decrease in Delta flying, and an increase in other airlines.

I'm not sure I agree with any of those statements...

Why would JA just let DL off the hook with the 50 seaters so we can move them to UAL or other carriers? As long as DL is stuck with our 50 seaters they have to fly them. I heard a while back that DCIs 900 scope maybe maxed out but their 700s are not. Why not a 2 for 1 for 700s and then move those 200s to another carrier? I guess I am just wondering if JA lets DL off the hook it wouldn't be growth. :confused:

ASA has had multiple bases in the past. Plus there are plenty of models around the industry. I doubt it will be an issue. This isn't a brand new concept.

700's are considered large RJ's and I'm pretty sure Delta is maxed out on those too.

My opinion is that Delta has been making things difficult for them for a while. First they stiff SkyWest on IROP reimbursements, lawsuit pending. Then they start playing base roulette. Lately with the crazy schedules where flights only operate 3 times a week (other days on other carriers) or we enter a market, establish facilities, then exit the market the next month. Talk has abounded that when the contact opens back up next year, Delta will be slashing SkyWest's profit margins in the cost + arrangement. Now they're shipping us to the Northeast in the winter? Sounds to me like they're just not that into us.

I'm thinking that SkyWest Inc is sick of Delta's crap, and they'd prefer to do business with a company who WANTS us, not one that's trying to get rid of us. But with that said, I doubt SKW will let the 80% clause go until the flying becomes unprofitable (after next year). They know that we haven't made the goal of "second lowest cost" and never will, thus the contract rates will be slashed. SKW is hedging its bet.

BINGO! Our mainline "brothers" created a much lower cost "regional" called Compass....We can never match their costs with their low longevity....It's time to take care of ourselves.....

Based on the contract it looks like current 700 FOs cant be forcefully displaced before a more senior 200 FO is.

Ummm.... what?


G. Awarding Positions
1. The awarding of vacancies and/or reductions will be determined
as follows from the bid preference forms on file at the
time of the closing, using seniority or inverse seniority order
as applicable, so that when the process is complete, all pilots
will be in the most senior position on their bid preference
form that they can hold consistent with the provisions of this
Section:
a. If there are only position vacancies, they will be awarded
in seniority order (both posted and resultant).
b. If there are only position reductions, they will be awarded
in inverse order of seniority (both posted and resultant).
c. If there are position vacancies and position reductions,
then all position vacancies (both posted and resultant)
will be awarded first in seniority order, then, if any position
reductions are still indicated, they will be awarded in
inverse order of seniority (both posted and resultant).
2. A pilot who cannot hold his permanent position is considered
displaced. No pilot may be displaced by a pilot who is junior
to him. A displaced pilot, by order of seniority, will be afforded
the following options in selection of paragraph G.2.a. or
G.2.b. below, as indicated on the pilot’s bid preference form:
Section 24 – Filling of Vacancies

a. Captains and first officers may displace:
(1) The most junior pilot in the same category in the
system, or, if unavailable, then;
(2) A more junior pilot in the same status in another
aircraft type in the current domicile, or, if unavailable,
then;
(3) The most junior pilot in the same status in another
aircraft type in the system.
b. Alternatively, captains may displace:
(1) The most junior pilot in a lower status in the same
aircraft type in the same domicile or, if unavailable,
then;
(2) The most junior pilot in a lower status in another
aircraft type in the system.

Trip 7,
I just got an email back from the FO Rep,

"[email protected] to [email protected]
8:15pm

XXXXX,
As an a -200 FO I am trying to interpret the contract correctly. With the upcoming displacement, would a junior -700 FO to me be displaced to IAD before me?

Thanks

RESPONSE

That is correct. Long as you have 30-35 FO's junior to you, you'll be
good. You could end up being displaced to the 700 in ATL.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
First Officer Representative
Air Line Pilots Association


Hope this clears up the mud.

That assumes the company interprets the contract the same way... which their record in awards in the last two years suggests they won't (and read below).

Yes. A junior -200 Captain subject to displacement to IAD can bump an FO off the -700 and take his spot. That FO would bump the most junior -700 FO, possibly to the -200 displacement if they're way junior.

I'll look more closely at the contract when I get home but someone from FI explained it to me this way: