New Legislation Requiring ATP
 

U.S. House Passes Airline Safety Bill

Does anyone know if this new bill only applies to regional airlines, and if not what all segments of the industry could this effect? I ask because it seems that current programs offered by schools like ATP Flight School want come close to providing enough airtime to acquire your ATP certificate. Anyone know any good alternatives (besides instructing) that under this new bill would allow a young pilot to build time to get to the regionals? Also I have heard some statements that the new time increase would make pilots in higher demand for the regionals and therefore higher pay, any opinions?

Why is everyone getting so worked up about this new bill? Nothing has been set in stone or has even become a law, yet!!

And no, regional airline pay will never change.

All Part 121 carriers the ATP is applicable to. As for your other concerns, sounds like flight instructing is not in your best interest, look at all avenues regarding time building, (banner towing, pipeline, networking at the local FBO and seeing if anyone needs a second pilot). All of this means is you will have to bust your hump looking, no one is going to hand it to you. And the increase in flight hours may (possibility) mean increase in pay to draw pilots.
Good luck!

There's no better way to really learn than to teach...

jumpers, pipeline, instructing, fly freight, angel flight or just build connections until you get to know the right people to land that first job somewhere.

This is true that its not a law yet but it passed with 409 for and only 11 against in the House. Nothing wrong with considering all the possibilities dude. Thanks for all the replies so far.

Majors have pretty much required an ATP or ATP minimums time for a long time. No change there.

ATP flight school will not come close to providing you the time. If you don't want to flight instruct you can try banner towing, pipeline flying, traffic watch etc. I would still suggest earning a CFI because you can use for things other than instructing. You can hang out at your local FBO and meet people that own planes and see if you can get them to take you up in the air. You can log that time as "instructing" even though you really aren't That said I would instruct because not only can you get a little money out of it and off-set costs but it is also a good experience.

Of course you can always buy time but I would suggest part or full ownership of a plane because it will be cheaper that way then renting planes from your FBO for hundreds of hours of training. You can also resale it down the road and get some money back.

Getting on at a Part 135 place is also another way to build time.

The military is a good choice too.

Keep your ears and eyes open and meet a ton of people because that is what will open doors for you.

Will wages come up? Who knows, as Spoilers says it isn't law yet and it can be changed even after it is made law. It might help cut down on some of the supply of pilots but realistically there are so many unemployed and qualified pilots out there that it will take a long time for the demand to catch up if ever. Also the universities are going to be exempt for some portion of the ATP requirements, I promise you right now ATP flight school is looking for similar exemption through their lobbyists.

If you're smart about it, good at what you do and work hard, getting to 1500 hours after getting through your ratings is only 2-3 years...it isn't likely that there would be mass hiring within that time frame anyways.

Well said

"To teach is to learn twice."

I would suggest that you read about the topic first. By educating yourself on this topic you can ask pertinent, intelligent questions. This topic has been discussed on this site for some time. The following are a few threads already established that have the opinions of many and also some facts about the bill and its progress thus far:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...tual-bill.html (this thread is closed but has a lot of what you are looking for)

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...ning-bill.html

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...-new-bill.html

Happy reading!

Couldn't disagree more mate. If there's one thing that's constant in this business, its the perpetual state of change. Cyclical really is an understatement and "regionals" have only been operating in their current mode for a relatively short period of time. After 2012 and the pilot shortage we'll be in the driver seat for a while, give it another few years, an economic downturn or two and I'm sure we'll give back what we made :p

If you realize that now, you'll save yourself a lot of aggravation over the long run :)

Ah, the good 'ole "pilot shortage" argument. There has never been a pilot shortage and there never will be!

Its too bad we're not payed enough, but at least you've got a postive outlook and an open mind :p

Give it time, unless high speed trains sprout up over night (not ruling that out) we're not training anywhere near enough pilots to fill the vacancy the baby boomers will leave

It's also been said that "those who can't do, teach."

I don't follow that school of thought, but two of the worst pilots I have ever met were being paid to teach me to fly.

Honestly, I'm not digging on CFI's. It's a tough, but rewarding way into this industry. I haven't done it, but have plenty of respect for those who do/did.

"Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, teach gym"
-Jack Black, School of Rock
Sorry, I had to...

if higher pay is ever offered my guess is it would mostly (perhaps only) effect new hires... have airlines ever offered signing bonuses?

Yep, they did... but the unions shot it down saying they need to spread the wealth up top, and not just attracting newhires.

There are PLENTY of under/unemployed pilots across every segment of aviation to help absorb any "pilot shortage" that might occur post-2012.

Personally, I don't think it'll happen because in 2007 what we saw wasn't a shortage of qualified pilots, it was a shortage of qualified pilots willing to work for lower-end operators at their offered compensation and lifestyle.

A shortage of those able to fly and a shortage of those willing to fly for crappy pay/QOL are two very different things; after all, "top jobs" like UPS, FedEx, SWA & NetJets didn't lack for qualified applicants...

There is alot of merit to this premise, and I've heard it alot. I think this is applicable, but not always in aviation.

Somebody whom is low time and gets a freight job, flying single pilot IFR in all weather, including low imc precision and non-precision approaches is a whole lot more qualified than somebody whom is a CFI with 2,000 hours dual given of which almost all of it is day vfr doing touch and goes and stalls.

I think CFI'ing is repetitive, mind numbing, dangerous, and incredibly boring all at the same time.

There's never been one cause there's never been a swath of baby boomers getting ready to retire. There's never been an ATP required by law (not just economics)to get a job at a regional, the duty regs have never changed, our industry has never been more volatile.... etc etc

There are a lot of new factors going on right now that have "never been", so i really wouldn't be too surprised if we do see one. It's not just the flight schools that are predicting one, most aviation "experts" agree...so I have a hard time discrediting that just cause it has "never been".

I hope you don't think that 2012 is some kind of magic bullet or something for your career. There are plenty of guys on the street that are underemployed, flying for a foreign operator, back in the military or just taking a break from flying. Its gonna be several yrs before all of the recalls and the highly qualified guys are back in the saddle at the majors. The only place the (perceived) shortage is gonna be is at the commuters because of the increased TT requirements. Hopefully that will translate into a pay raise for the commuter guys to attract candidates. I think its gonna be along time before we are back in the proverbial driver's seat again

That you had to throw experts in quotation marks says it all ;)

While I admire those who were good CFI's, I agree with Convairator on this issue. Before my airline life I was a CFI and then had a 135 gig so I've done both. The skills I learned flying flying single pilot for a 135 operator were far more valuable than the teaching skills I learned as a CFI. If you have the chance, take a flying job over a teaching job.

Back in the day that was the normal progression. Instruct till you meet 135 IFR mins, go fly 135, go on to the regionals. I just instructed, and didn't seem to have any problems, but the industry was in a hiring cycle. But I also didn't hire on with 500hrs either. When hiring resumes, the CFI, 135, or fuloughed guys will be getting the calls for the interviews?

Lol. Is that the same pilot shortage I've been hearing about for the last ten years.... or more?

The last ten years have been quite atypical, even for aviation. Its short sighted to base opinion only on what you've seen rather than the big picture. Things will change...hopefully for the better, but rest assured, they will change. Good luck to you :)

Hi!

I think if UAL/AA, etc. comes to your high school, and hires you with a private and/or Commercial, I think that qualifies as a pilot shortage.

cliff
Mafikeng, SA

I think the last "true" pilot shortage was the 1960's. Major airlines were going to colleges and recruiting people to be pilots, ab initio.

But, that was long before pilot puppy mills.

"Louis Smith, president of FLTops.com, has been covering pilot hiring for more than 30 years. According to Smith, pilot shortages have been incorrectly predicted by experts every decade since the last true shortage in the 1960s. Airline industry veterans will remember airlines advertising for pilots in the 1960s and paying for primary flight training to entice new pilots into the industry. That may seem mind-boggling today, but it happened. "