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The E120 is a great airplane that was far beyond it's time when first introduced. Unfortunately it's time is coming to an end in 121, but it should go on to fly for many more decades in cargo and third worlds.
I love the "switch b1tch, Bro, Jungle Junk, Burrito Bomber, Brazilian King Air...etc..." and I'm proud to have the E120 as one of my "types" with thousands of hours in her, mostly PIC. |
Thank you guys very much for taking the time to provide this level of detail. Look forward to hearing more about what not to do on the Bro.
Seasons Greetings Kiz
Originally Posted by JetJock16
(Post 721235)
I agree with everything that's been said both John and Cardinal......
I'll first add that the E120 does not like it when it’s cold. You’ll often have FFOD (First Flight of Day) system check failures due to it just being cold. I recommend you let the a/c warm up and try it again. If it fails a second time then call Mx Control. This happens most often with the AP test. BTW, the best way to warm up or cool off the EMB is to start the APU, open the APU bleed and crossbleed and trun the Packs on Low, leave the fans off so it cools/heats the belly of the a/c first. Then after you feel warm or cold air coming out of the side pilot console vents then turn the fans on which will circulate the cold/warm air throughout. Keep mind that the main temperature sensor is by the main cabin door (MCD). During the winter, when the MCD is open keep the Pack temperature knobs on full cold otherwise you will burn up the packs and smoke the cabin due to the sensor always sensing the cold air from the MCD. Engine starts: After start the eninges make sure the Nh is above 60% before you move the Condition Levers to Min. Otherwise the EEC’s won’t come on line. If they don’t, just start the second engine and then reset the EEC’s. Takeoff: What for “fail Fix’s” and only abort at slow speeds. The 2 FF’s I’ve had both happened just after I added power (only moving about 20kts) so I aborted. If your power is set to TO power and you experience a “Fail Fix,” DO NOT!!! abort as you WILL ground-loop the a/c (the failed side will stay at TO power and the other side will retard). Next, just after rotation as you're passing through 120 knots the green rudder hydraulic actuators system is suppose to depressurize. If it does not you will end up with an overboost situation which will freeze your rudders. The QRH will simply tell you to turn the Blue isolation rudder switch off…………memorize this. At SKW we have the right to turn the switch off without consulting the QRH only if it happens during a critical phase of flight such as just after TO. Remember the E120 requires you to add a lot of right rudder on TO and climb out so if your rudders are frozen that is a very serious situation. Climb: We climb at 180 and in tail wings 170. Power Changes: Get used to always trimming the rudder. Any change in power will require you to trim the rudder, this is nonstop. EEC’s: If they fail on climb out or in cruise it will feel like an engine failure. The failed EEC will cause a rollback in torque of around 20% which can be dramatic if you have high power settings. Props: DO NOT USE THEM AS SPEED BRAKES. These things are dangerous and many accidents have occurred due to using them as speed brakes. Treat them very kindly and move them slowly!!!!!!! Be careful this is a reenactment of an E120 prop overspeed at a very low altitude. Replay it a few times and watch at what speed they moved the props to max and checkout the Np’s. Then check out the pilots fight to maintain control. YouTube - Voice Recorder / Black Box of Embraer 120 Accident ASA FLT 7529, August 1995: http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1996/aar9606.pdf YouTube - Lost Wing - Tribute to Flight 529 MEMORIZED the “Prop Overspeed” procedure and know it well. Ice: Do not go slower than 170 knots in icing conditions; I hope you have the “Comair” box installed. Comair 5054, March 2001: NTSB - Advisory Comair 3272, January 1997: DCA97MA017 This is a start, I’ll add more later when I get a chance. |
Originally Posted by JetJock16
(Post 721256)
I love the "switch b1tch, Bro, Jungle Junk, Burrito Bomber, Brazilian King Air...etc..." and I'm proud to have the E120 as one of my "types" with thousands of hours in her, mostly PIC.
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Lol, you guys are too funny! love the names.
Anybody turned the bleeds off for landing?
Originally Posted by John Pennekamp
(Post 721266)
I always liked Taco Turbine.
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A jingle to start the APU: "Batt, Batt, Nav, Batt, Fire, Fuel Start"
Main Battery Backup Battery Nav Lights Battery Voltage Fire Detection Test Fuel pumps Apu Start. |
That's a nice one. Keep them coming guys!
Seasons Greetings Kiz
Originally Posted by Cardinal
(Post 721337)
A jingle to start the APU: "Batt, Batt, Nav, Batt, Fire, Fuel Start"
Main Battery Backup Battery Nav Lights Battery Voltage Fire Detection Test Fuel pumps Apu Start. |
Always fun to scare the hell out of the rampers with the 5 foot blowtorch when starting the APU on a cold morning.
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Lol I'll remember that one for sure. Any other great tips for operating the bro?
Regards Kiz |
Originally Posted by kizzle
(Post 721969)
Lol I'll remember that one for sure. Any other great tips for operating the bro?
Regards Kiz |
Originally Posted by John Pennekamp
(Post 720581)
You all act like Osama Bin Laden himself just asked how to fly an airplane. Guys, this is just a newbie, trying to figure things out, in the wrong way. Cut him some slack. Plus, we're talking about an EMB-120 here, not a 777. Not exactly a terrorist target! Take off the tin foil hats!!!
Kizzle, as a few have stated, the best way to go about this is to contact Embraer to get checklists and operational manuals from them, then adapt those to your use. I'm assuming you're part 91. Don't expect anything useful from message boards. I have lots of time in Brakillyas, but it was so long ago I'm probably not of much help. G' luck. |
Thanks much guys. Love the feedback i'm getting from this thread. Feel free to add anything else you can think up about the EMB.
Regards KLC |
Originally Posted by kizzle
(Post 721279)
Lol, you guys are too funny! love the names.
Anybody turned the bleeds off for landing? How bout the "South of the Equator Crusader." |
Thanks for the intel. Anything else i should know about the EMB?
Regards & Seasons Greetings KIZ
Originally Posted by steak pilot
(Post 722638)
Usually only during the summer, landing with the bleeds in low is fine until you have to go around. In the summer, hot, heavy, and high (DEN) you would technically have to apply the APG bleed hit just as you would for T/O, as well as the climb performace would be severly degraded. Some time during approach fire up the APU and open the crossbleed and close the engine bleeds, this eliminates the performance problem.
How bout the "South of the Equator Crusader." |
You guys forgot the all important......take the packs out of high BEFORE you go to idle.
-DING- me - Yes miss flight attendant? FA - the lav smoke detector is beeping and there's a smoke cloud that smells like burnt dust. me - don't worry, I'll fix that....(stupid packs!! $#%&**& piece of sh^&) me - ladies and gentlemen, we've had one of our air conditioning packs overheat, don't be alarmed, the smoke in the cabin will dissipate shortly and there is nothing wrong with the aircraft......(just the dumb pilot):) |
Lol, i'll remember that one for sure. Thanks for the heads up. Those Packs seem to be trouble makers at best. I guess the best policy would be to operate them on low with the Pack temp selector on max cold.
Regards kiz |
Originally Posted by kizzle
(Post 723130)
I guess the best policy would be to operate them on low with the Pack temp selector on max cold.
Regards kiz |
:eek: lol okay so whats the deal with the WS heat? How should we be using them to avoid any damage to you know where?
How about headsets? Can we use regular jet headsets or do we dig up those old DCs to avoid any futher heading loss. During the start sequence can you hear interference from the ignition system in your headset? Regards Kiz |
Originally Posted by kizzle
(Post 723431)
:eek: lol okay so whats the deal with the WS heat? How should we be using them to avoid any damage to you know where?
How about headsets? Can we use regular jet headsets or do we dig up those old DCs to avoid any futher heading loss. During the start sequence can you hear interference from the ignition system in your headset? Regards Kiz |
Thanks for that heads up. Which one generates cooler engine starts?
EEC ON or EEC OFF? APU or GPU power assisted starts? Regards Kiz
Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
(Post 723437)
If the nose section is anything like the EMB-145 (I've been told they are basically identical) then I believe you're gonna want those David Clamps. Otherwise you'll spend the entire flight shouting at each other and then be dead to the world when you get on the ground.
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Cooler starts with EEC on. Cooler on APU. You'll need the full headsets. The -120 is the loudest airliner I've flown.
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Thanks for the intel. I should be able to PM shortly. About 5 more posts and we should be good to go here.
Regards KLC |
Originally Posted by kizzle
(Post 723431)
:eek: lol okay so whats the deal with the WS heat? How should we be using them to avoid any damage to you know where?
How about headsets? Can we use regular jet headsets or do we dig up those old DCs to avoid any futher heading loss. During the start sequence can you hear interference from the ignition system in your headset? Regards Kiz I use the David Clark X-11's they work just fine. Friends of mine use the QC2, the Bose X or just regular DC's. |
Thanks for the heads up. I'll see if i can find one of my old ANRs.
Seasons Greetings Kiz
Originally Posted by steak pilot
(Post 724670)
wear a lead jock strap.
I use the David Clark X-11's they work just fine. Friends of mine use the QC2, the Bose X or just regular DC's. |
Hi guys.
What kind of fuel reserves do you guys carry around on the bro? Seasons Greetings Kiz
Originally Posted by kizzle
(Post 724909)
Thanks for the heads up. I'll see if i can find one of my old ANRs.
Seasons Greetings Kiz |
Originally Posted by kizzle
(Post 725404)
Hi guys.
What kind of fuel reserves do you guys carry around on the bro? Seasons Greetings Kiz |
Round trip the fuel if you can! One less thing to do on a quick turn at an out-station. On short flights it doesn't really cost anymore to tanker, especially when out-station fuel in 50 cents more a gal!
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Thanks much guys all of this is noted. If anybody has anything else to add please do.
Seasons Greetings KIZ
Originally Posted by KingAirPIC
(Post 725424)
Round trip the fuel if you can! One less thing to do on a quick turn at an out-station. On short flights it doesn't really cost anymore to tanker, especially when out-station fuel in 50 cents more a gal!
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Okay guys need a little help with the climb speeds. I know some guys use the 118As and 118Bs but anybody have a good idea how the 118s perform and what climb speeds would best fit that engine?
I know some guys are using 180/170, some Aps are setup with 155 as initial and then reducing after 20k, other APs are setup at 170 and then reducing to 155. What's best for the 118s climb speed wise? Regards KIZ |
Our "profile" at ASA was 160 (118s). At Lakes it was 180 with 118Bs. I found it climbed just as well at 200. I really never let it get below 180.
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I know in my time in it, the heavier you are, the more momentum you'll need to get up into the flight levels. Above 24,000 lbs, I will do a 190 to 200 knot climb. That'll get you a good climb rate and plenty of energy up to about 18 or 20,000 feet. Above that, 180 knots works for a while until 500 fpm, then finish out the climb at 500 fpm. Below 24000 lbs, 180 knots works fine all the way up to 22 to 23,000 feet, then gradually bleeds off.
If it's cold, airplane very happy. When it's warm, airplane not so happy. When it's warm, the 190 to 200 kt climb works well. |
Thanks much guys for the Intel. What engines did you guys use EMB120IP? John i should be able to PM now.
Regards KIZ |
JetJock,
Could you give me a little mode detail on the flip cards used to set cruise power? I'd like to make some flip cards as well. Did you guys have a flip card for each weight (e.g. every 2000 lbs) and then have altitudes and temps for those weights? How many flip cards did you guys have? Regards KLC |
Hey guys, what about flap schedule during approaches?
What is the min speed for: Flaps up, 15, 25, 45? What do you guys do flap wise for? Precision Non precision Circle Visual Regards KIZ |
Originally Posted by kizzle
(Post 732117)
Hey guys, what about flap schedule during approaches?
What is the min speed for: Flaps up, 15, 25, 45? What do you guys do flap wise for? Precision Non precision Circle Visual Regards KIZ One of these guys will hopefully just send you the EMB SOP. All the profiles will be in there. Sorry, I only have one electronically for the CRJ. One tid bit. A flap 45 landing is "captain only". I've never flown the plane, and really have no idea why the restriction at SkW. |
Well tony, i'm looking at the Embraer SOPs and it's saying that the flap maneuvering speeds are:
0 160 KIAS 15 140 KIAS 25 130 KIAS 45 120 KIAS I'd just like to know if that's what most other companies are using or if not when do they extend flaps. Additionally FSI and EMB has 2 completely different profiles for the various approaches so i'd like to know which profile other companies use. Merry Christmas KIZ |
We use the 118B's, and operate primarily out of Denver (high altitude ops). We climb up into the high 20's always (25 thru 28), so I don't know how the straight 118 works in that respect.
As for flap operating speeds, we use: 15 - 200 kts 25 - 150 45 - 130 (this is 5kt's slower than EMB states. We've found in some models, and the difference in all of the actuators, this speed reduces the amount of dissagreements you get when flap 45 is selected). We don't have any specific speeds for flap retraction, except flaps 15 to 0 is done at V2 + 20. This reduces the sink rate you get when the flaps are retracted. Flaps 45 isnt a big deal, just carry power to touchdown. Don't expect a smooth landing anytime, unless you're just plain lucky. Flap settings on approach: Precision: 25 or 45 (flap 15 on base leg/procedure turn inbd, Gear dn/condit. levers max/flaps 25 at 1 dot below GS, Flap 45 (if desired) shortly thereafter) Non prec: straight in, flap 25 flown (flap 15 proced. turn, gear dn/condit levers max/flap 25 3 miles from FAF) Flap 45 (if desired) when field in sight and prior to descent below 500 feet. Circle: FLap 25 only Visual: 25 or 45, as long as you are configured and stable prior to 500 feet agl. |
Hey Guys,
What kind of power setting (Ball park TQ) do you most frequently see during a flaps 25 and Flaps 45 approach. Oh John i should be able to PM now. I'm well above 25 posts. Regards KIZ |
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
(Post 732120)
]
One tid bit. A flap 45 landing is "captain only". I've never flown the plane, and really have no idea why the restriction at SkW. |
Can i assume then that it is better to use Flaps 25 during a crosswind landing?
At what height do you typically start the flare and finally whats the big deal with not allowing the SIC to perform Flaps 45 landings. As in is there some overriding concern that i'm missing? Regards Happy New Year to all! KIZ |
One additional thing guys. The manual says that you set the pressurization to 300 ft below the destination airports elevation. It doesn't however state the procedure to be used if the approach will be flown with the bleeds off. What do you guys recommend we do re the pressurization setting for descent if we plan to accomplish a bleeds off landing?
Regards KIZ |
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