Part of the entitled problem ARE the guys that have degrees. I have a degree myself...just not the mighty four year, and I agree with the post that states some of you feel a need to justify having your degree. If you feel that it took so much time, effort, and money to obtain it only to be working next to a country bumkin that hasn't made the same "sacrifices" as you then maybe you need to go elsewhere. This industry is about unity, and by continuing to find ways to divide us will not help in the end.

Union Apprenticeship
 

I think that there should be a union enforced apprenticeship of some kind. Then it does not matter what the congress or the FAA does.

The union could determine that before a pilot could become "carded" for an airline job they must meet certain experience and training requirements. The numbers could be set at point to weed out people and to control the supply of pilots to the airlines. Thus creating an artificial shortage.

Skyhigh

BS.
I also went to college in the late 80s and only a select few got on with the majors within a couple of years after graduation and it was primarily in the early 80s. I guess your forget the fact that Branif went bust in '89 and Pan Am followed in '91. That really put a damper on hiring for quite sometime.

My point
 

I was in college during the mid to late 1980's. By the time I graduated things had indeed changed as you so kindly pointed out.

Skyhigh

I went to college in the mid to late 80's too; but I wasn't interested in the airlines so I don't know what the industry was like then.
Your post is confusing me though Sky.
Which was it in the late 80's - Were "...times good. Airlines were hiring." or "by the time you graduated things had indeed changed." :confused:

Did you go to college in the late 80's when you say times were good and then graduate in the early 90's when they had changed?

USMCFLYR

Yet we only hear this drivel from those without a 4 year degree. Seems like the degree-less crowd are the ones that feel the need to justify their decisions. If you beat the system, more power to you...just don't go around telling people it was a good plan.

You've posted quite a bit of drivel, yet I've only seen a few post from from people without degrees. There is no beating the system, you were either hired or not. If there was a degree requirement and you snuck in through a connection without one, then you would be beating a system. But you can't fault anyone for entering a field that has no degree requirement in place. I'm not wholly opposed to your idea, I'm just saying that looking down on someone right now for not having a degree is a bit ridiculous.

Maybe I shouldn't say "beat the system." More like "beat the odds."

I don't have a problem with your opinion as it may relate to graduates of certain programs (you know who I'm talking about), but on this board, in general, the people who get most in a huff and make silly excuses justifying their actions are the handful on this board who don't have degrees and wear it on their sleeves. Anytime someone proposes a degree requirement, you can count on someone to come out of the woodwork to say "well I got my ratings at 18 and I'm just as good as you."

The problem isn't that you're not a better pilot without a degree...it's the fact that you have less formal education, and thus lie below one of the few quantifiable lines we can draw if we are going to raise standards.

So I contend that your assertion that people are on here to justify their degrees is, in fact, 100% backward from whats going on here. People with degrees in this profession are in the overwhelming majority and don't need to justify anything.

All of us were told before we got into this industry that you should get your degree first, and that you're rolling the dice if you didn't...and if you didn't, don't get on here and make excuses for something that, FAA rule or not, is an industry standard that most are held to at Legacies. I would argue that there has ALWAYS been a de facto degree requirement in place, with exception to those who have had miraculous timing or good connections (and again, good for them).

This is no different than the 1500 hour minimum. There are guys who are better pilots at 500 hours than some with 7000 hours. Some people could have graduated from Middle School and done this. But at some point an arbitrary line needs to be drawn.

Online Degrees, well I agree that's a weakness in the degree argument, but one we'll leave for a future 20 page thread.

I do not agree that an arbitrary line needs to be drawn regarding pilots having a college degree. The fact is, it is not necessary for this profession. Plenty of airline and other types of commercial pilots since the Wilbur and Orville times have done just fine without one.

I also do not agree with ANY "arbitrary" lines being drawn beyond what we already have in place. I like our U.S. training and cerfification standards after learning more about the rest of the "free" worlds approach. That said, I think the move toward requiring an ATP for right seaters in scheduled 121 ops is a good one. Only in the respect that it will improve safety- not as an underhanded attempt to restrict the supply of pilots willing to do the job. I guess I am one of the few that doubts that restricting the supply of pilots through artificial means will have an affect on 121 pay and QOL.

Pie in the sky- I believe more emphasis needs to be placed on PIC time and evidence of good decision making skills in challenging conditions, and less emphasis on arbitrary hourly standards driven by insurance companies based on time on specific type.

I do have a four year degree by the way.

Good luck to all. Pedigree or not. Unless you paid for a job.

I'll agree to disagree...sort of.

Plenty, yes. Most, no.

You also used to be able to get a drivers license by paying $1 to the State of Kansas...standards change over time.


Amen to that!