Not the usual "how much do pilots make" post
 

I spent a few minutes looking at this thread and notice that some of the figures were a little higher than I expected. Let me explain. From what I understand, an estimate of the yearly salary will be ~1000x the hourly wage. I took a quick look through the thread and found that some FO’s made a bit more than the estimated amount.

For example, one person on 3rd yr pay made 46k, and another person on 3rd year pay made 44k.

My question is, how typical is it for pilots to make a bit more than the initial estimate would suggest? Do the majority of regional FO’s make extra cash, or are these guys a fortunate few?

I have a feeling some of them are including per diem.
Things that can push you past your 1000 hrs per yr and not be counted as flying are things such as ground school, deadheads, pay protection for cancellations, trip rigs, reserve credit, simulator, international over-ride, night over-ride etc, etc.

It's actually hourly wage multiplied by how much you credit for the month. Credits are different than hours flown. This is where good work rules come in.

Deadheads can be a huge factor with monthly credit amounts. Before being furloughed I would credit 60+ hours (not including guarantee) with only flying approx 35 hrs. This was due to my company constantly deadheading me around the US at 3/4 pay. Every trip would include an average of one deadhead every day!

Deadheading - Dozing for Dollars. And they wonder why they are making a loss...

This is correct. Due to good work rules, one can fly 85 hours a month but get paid for 90 to 100+. So you could fly 1000 a yr but get paid for 1200 a year. Also some include per diem and some don't, as it is technically a reimbursement, not income. And every trip is different, so one person who flies 1000/yr will make different credit than another that flies 1000/yr.

In addition to workrules, performance bonuses, holiday bonuses, and training pay all add up too.

Not at Trans-States they don't...

I haven't seen it mentioned so don't forget block or better. Probably an easy 50+hrs of flight pay on top of what's scheduled. I think this year I was paid around 1100hrs total with 960ish flown. So there's training etc in there.

3rd Year ASA pay Grossed over $45K this year working hard in the summer and coasting the rest of the year...It's def. possible to make +7K on top of hourly pay rate X 1000

The testament of a good contract is how much you gross compared to how much you flew. In other words, your gross pay divided by actual hours flown.

Like most things in aviation...it depends! For instance, there are ways to maximize the provisions in the contract to maximize income. That's how many of us make our extra money. If you base it strictly on hours flown, and per diem, you will get a much lower number.

For instance, I made about $48K (f/o at XJT 5 yr pay) not including per diem, yet I only flew about 600 hours total. How did it happen? Well there was a lot of dead head time in there which is paid at 100% per our contract. There was also a few times when I was fully paid protected for one trip that suffered discontinuity due to weather say in EWR and was given another assignment which was paid at time and half during those days.

Ultimately, I get about 14 days off a month, I could have more time off, but I trade a lot for the purpose of maximizing my income. Throw a couple of months of vacation in there where I don't do much, and it's not a bad gig.

goaround

Deadheading is being at work, they want to take my time they need to pay me ... We don't work for free. We all need to be paid duty time to make this a decent career again.

I wasn't suggesting we should do it for free at all. My 'they wonder why they are making a loss' comment was pointing to the incapability of scheduling!

In my opinion a DH is just a tiring as working the flight, and the seat is smaller!! It should be full pay and not 3/4 as my previous airline paid.

Duty time pay would be ideal, of course, but it's a long way off.

True, but as you mentioned in the other thread, TAFB from base can be a factor as well.

For the EWR/CLE guys doing 4 days with 6 am shows and 2100 releases on trips that pay 20 hours, well................

Even if you only block 16-17 hours and get paid 20, but had to spend 80+ hours TAFB to do it doesn't exactly reek of a good contract.

Ok, so let me see if I have this right. The hourly rate posted is actually per "credit" and not per flight hour. One flight hour is one credit, but other things (like deadheading) give you credits as well. Is this right?

If my understanding is correct, is it normal for a pilot to get significantly more credits than flight hours in a given month or year?

Well, that's pretty much it. But it can depend on the contract/workrules in regard to deadhead, but you've pretty much got it. Some airlines only pay 50 or 75% credit for a DH.

Say you have a 4 day trip that is worth 20 hours of credit, but has a 2 hour DH in it. So the flight time you are scheduled to fly is 18 hours. Due to underblocking and/or a cancelation etc, you only fly say 15 hours. You STILL get 20 hours credit for the trip. Again, this is assuming the contract has "block or better" as well as 100% DH pay language.

Some companies also have certain pay provisions if you are junior manned, such as 150-200% pay credit. Also, a "duty rig" for things such as CDO/stand ups/highspeeds/naps.

My former employer had a provision that every CREDIT hour above 98 was paid at double time, if you chose to work it. The other alternative was to have ALL your flying dropped for the rest of the month that occurs after the 98 hour credit point.

Another example, from another thread, here are my totals for a few years at my previous job;

2001 1390 credit hours, 754 in the logbook
2002 1360 credit, 684 in the book
2003 1168 cedit, 599 in the book
2004 1079 credit 524 in the book
2005 260 credit, ZERO flown, under that CBA.

To answer the question, yes.

Thanks. Good to know that the 2nd yr FO's at ExpressJet make more than 34k.

On a tangent, what's "junior manning"? I've seen the term used all the time, but am not too sure what exactly it means.

If you were to talk to some reserve pilots, they may have not broke that number by much

That's when the company is out of pilots. No reserve pilots, nobody willing to pick up an open trip, segment, etc. The line holder who thought he was going to be done for the day and was going home just got a surprise, he's getting to work more. Whether it's an additional turn(s), or into another overnight on a day off.

Again, this is a contractual language thing. My previous employer had NO junior manning what so ever. The ONLY way to have a day off taken was due to weather/mechanical, etc. Not due to staffing issues.

I'm guessing the answer will be "it depends", but once you've completed your scheduled legs for the day, or at the end of a trip, are you obliged to accept a junior man flight, or can you simple say no?

A lot of pilots turn off their phones or don't answer any calls from scheduling on their day off but you can get 'tagged' when you arrive at you base. In other words, you don't have to unless tagged.

That's it.

Under my CBA, it has to come in the form of either a face to face notification, or if the pilot is dumb enough to answer his phone within 15 minutes of block in.

Skipper, to comment on your PM, YES, that was the practice back then. If you've ever read "Flying the Line v.1", it's a term called "jacking up the house". A method in which the unions try to ensure the career/profession keeps moving upwards. And it's not just pilot groups that went by this principle, mechanics (and other unionized groups) did it as well.

Each company tries to do better than the previous did as far as pay rates/work rules go. In 2000, UAL got their big fat contract. DAL used UAL's as the starting point to go bigger. AA was up next, 9/11 killed it.

Now, it's sadly become a matter of you get what you can negotiate with your management, not so much a "we want what they have, plus" mentality.

Sounds like a petty good setup back then. I wonder how long it will take to get back to the "jacking up the house" mentality. God knows the industry needs it right now.