Colgan..........really?
 

place seems worse off than when I left it

This PBS special is EYE OPENING..............

very sad, Colgan Pilots deserve better

ahhh don't worry. There will be 15 guys in the next 24 hours posting on the Colgan hiring thread about the fax number to send their resume's.

no kidding, really unreal, they will be more than happy to "move the rig" for 16k a year

DAMN!!! not on here in the west for another hour!!!!

Quality presentation by PBS...did a solid job reporting facts

Yeah, the Colgan name ain't the best in the navy.

Colgan management is scum. By accepting employment at this company you are accepting and promoting abysmal work rules and pay. They made somewhere around 30 million in one of the last quarters off of the backs of these hard working employees... This is not OK!!! If you work for colgan you need to get upset and you need to educate yourself on how far Colgan is lagging behind its competitors in work rules, corporate culture, and pay.

It was a good special.

I agree 100%, Roger Cohen is a real low-life, same as the VP of the Majors who ignored the question about sharing liability with their regional partners. The reporter was awesome, I just wish they would have given regional pilots more credit, its the lifestyle that degrades our ability to fly airplanes in most cases, not our lack of knowledge or skill (IN MOST CASES)

The Colgan pilots on the show were very well spoken, and did a very good job of representing day to day life.

I highly suggest to anyone who has not watched, to make sure to do so

I also think the FAA should be ashamed of themselves, they know exactly what goes on and turn their heads........

I agree with you and can only respond with the hackneyed rebuttal that CJC ALPA is actively working to achieve better work rules and increase safety.

Great show. Hopefully a lot of people got educated tonight about our industry.

My only comment would be to highlight the fact that there are a lot of great highly capable regional pilots out there flying the line every day.

"I just wish they would have given regional pilots more credit"

When reporters come on here looking for opinions, the vast majority of users blast the media and call them all kinds of nasty names. It's not pretty. I would suggest that, in the future, folks consider what they say at APC could end up in the news. The site has been quoted before several times in the media. Perhaps reporters should be judged on past history and not all painted with the same brush. I can't think of a better way to get the word out about the state of the regional industry airline pilot than a PBS show like this, unless it was a show like this on prime time....

^ I agree, too bad this wasnt on NBC or something..........

It's been a long time since I thought a news story was actually ACCURATE, I was hugely impressed by the quality of journalism presented here. While I have in many instances doubted the quality of reporting based on misreporting of aviation stories, the accuracy of this report makes me want to believe frontline on other issues.

Trying to get into this industry or not... I just cant believe that anyone would want to work at Colgan...
Colgan is the example of what not to do... in every respect.

Frontline is top notch. This show wasn't even up to par with most of their stories. Most of the time they give both sides of the issue equal time.

^ Pretty tough to get the other side of this deal. I doubt anyone at Colgan wanted to get in front of a camera. Just have Cohen point the finger at everyone else (FAA, Pilots, Passengers) and call it good.

Remember this thread?

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...frontline.html

I did think this show was very well done. Hope it opens some eyes.

There may be some regionals better than others but ALL are subpar. Claiming "pride" (as it appears) that your airline doesn't pay pilots less than $35k/yr? Thats still disgustingly low.

As long as there is fee-for-departure and flying is being outsourced to the lowest bidder, there will be immense safety issues. We need a new system, an FAA that actually cares about safety, and actual real stiff penalties for those who do not.

Colgan shouldn't still have an operating certificate. Pinnacle shouldn't still be in business. Every other regional should be scared that if they slip up even once, they're next.

I disagree...it was a solid reporting for an attack but MOST definitely wasn't objective.

NO mention of regional safety over the years. (i.e. how man crashes per carrier) (not 1 single mention of safety over the years, except for the mention of the last 6 crashes were regionals over the past 8 years.)(slight bias for their argument)

NO mention of training practices for any regional (only a small bit on the Cpt. Renslow)

NO mention about other regionals practices (besides Colgan)

NO current pilot interviews (even if identity was hidden)

NO mention of how a lot of pilots that aren't at regionals anymore got their start there and are on mainline now or something differen't

It proves that Cohen and Continental's CEO is an idiot and at least made me think they aren't pilots (not sure if they are or not).

ULTIMATELY it didn't tell me anything that I didn't know before,

There were good things though:

IT did bring to light how the relationship between mainline and the regionals.

IT did bring to light duty/rest days as pilots and how much they actually work in a given day.

IT did bring to light the low pay.

IT did bring to light that its ultimately the FAA that is big brother but does a crappy job at it (at times)

P.S. where are the former colgan pilots now, anyone know? out of the three that interviewed, mainly the 2 they talked to the most.

This has changed my view of the regionals (very little) but I thought it was a sub-par report

dont worry name change and its past! valujet=airtran

Was it all encompassing? No, most definately not but within the scope of items covered I thought it was very accurate.

IC_ALL,

You and I have had our difference of opinion a majority of the time, but you are a 100% right about this one.

People on this forum tend to blast, misjudge, and react by typing without thinking. Maybe it’s a personal issue, maybe it’s an attempt to boost there self confidence, maybe it’s the fact that they don’t get the attention they want or need elsewhere; whatever it is, they seem to find pleasure in picking on the easiest target.

If only people thought about the positive outcome about speaking to a reporter on this particular issue, I’m sure we would get our point across quite well. Things don’t get done when you keep quiet: if you haven’t figured that out yet you should stay away from a safety related career.

And for those who say ‘we haven’t seen you contact the press..’ believe me, I have. Here are a few recent examples:

-Colgan crew memo regarding calling in fatigue.
-A good portion of TSA’s fleet pulled out of service due to a lack of maintenance.

Look at my previous recent posts, trying to educate a misinformed APC poster on what a reporter was trying to do. I am not sure if his rebuttal and reasoning was serious or sarcastic.

I am glad you brought this up IC_ALL. Maybe some people will begin to use there heads now.

ill agree with that statement...frontLine is usually pretty good about their investigative reporting...it seemed they already had an answer to a question they intended to ask by investigation

People need to realize its not just Colgan, its the whole industry. It all sucks. I sure hope the feds do something, because the industry as a whole doesn't need anymore negative light.

Their belongs to them, There is a place not here and They're is they are.... I had to, I really am that OCD.

Agreed it's not just Colgan I would point out as a Q400 driver that either makes you Colgan, Horizon or Lynx? If you're Colgan and that's your only airline experience it may be hard to truly comment on other airlines. I HAVE experienced pilot pushing at my airline but it was pushing me to fly to the limit of the contract not the FAA limit.

If I worked for colgan, I wouldn't be getting furloughed. People have said go work for Colgan now you don't have a job, and I am not going to do that.

I remember watching that hearing live online when the senators talked to the different airline managements. I was disgusted then and I am even more disgusted now knowing that they still haven't returned any info to the senators about accepting liability in the form of becoming active participants in the regional subsidiaries and contract partners.

During that hearing these CEOs and Chief Pilots were lying right to the senators faces. One senator in particular said that usually these hearings should not be on a personal level. However, his brother was lost in a not so distant aircraft accident and to him it was personal. He had a ton of knowledge of our industry and when he would back the management of the airlines into a corner, they would lie to him. Why don't the actual line pilots get invited into these hearings. Just like they did in this video tonight, we should be able to come forward and state the facts (Not Roger Cohen's facts of AVERAGE pay for regional CAs and FOs. Props for cutting him off there and telling him that we weren't talking about the average, but the ever so real junior guys at the bottom.

I've had friends calling me all night after watching this video. While I have been telling them for years that this stuff exists, they now realize there is a huge problem. Hopefully they pass that video on to everyone they know.

Incase anyone missed it..

FRONTLINE: flying cheap: watch the full program | PBS


get this to everyone you know... this needs to be forwarded to every one in America.

Awesome! Way to hold the bar up. (Not sarcastic even a little bit,sometimes hard to tell)

Illini, you make some very valid points.

What we all need to keep in mind is that this report wasn't meant for just pilots to watch. It's meant for the general American public to watch and learn from. So it's not as in depth as I'm sure many of us would like.

It's nice to finally see an accurate piece of journalism that addressed many of the major concerns that pilots have about the direction the industry has been going. I think if Mr. O'Brien had more time, more of these issues would have been addressed.

I wish they would have gone deeper into fatigue. But over all decent story. Its nice to see a report on aviation that is factual and not completely company bias.

Dumb question... I am not a pilot but i noticed watching this show last night they said the FO on the Buffalo flight raised the flaps when the plane started to stall which they mentioned was a huge mistake... I was just wondering what a effect would raising the flaps have to an aircraft that was on approach to land?

Simply put, raising the flaps would change the shape of the wing making it produce less lift at low speeds and in this situation resulting in a stall. Flaps allow the wing to produce more lift at slower speeds such as on an approach.

Not a dumb question at all.

I was impressed with Miles Obrien, I used to think he was just a CNN reporter with a private pilots rating, but he really dug deep, and he didnt let That Satanic Roger Cohen get around the questions..
Good Job Miles!

Correct me if I am wrong but frontline didn't do a story about Comair in Lexington.

Yeah, I'm surprised they havent just merged the two companies and get rid of the Colgan name.

exactly...there have been hundreds of other accidents but everyone is out for blood this time around it seems. I'm not saying things shouldn't change...but name me a regional airline that couldn't use some positive change.

I'm sure this report will accelerate the merger and removal of the Colgan name. Think Valujet/Air Tran.