Go Jet Rumor
 

There has been a lot of bad talk about this upstart airline. I heard through the grapevine that GoJet has acquired a contract with Continental.

If this is true, was Trans States trying to obtain that contract?

Maybe Gojet was formed to get the continental contract and the whole United mess with the sister company was just bad timing for those guys a Trans States?

Food for thought.

Im pretty sure GoJets was started to allow TSA management to get around its Union contracts and impose lower wages to operate larger equipment than they could currently get from their pilots (and FAs? Havent heard much about their part in this). Doesn't matter who's name is painted on the side, GoJets was a work-around entity from the start.

Unless they got the 24 Q400's, the only current CAL RFP was awarded to Republic to fly 69 ERJ's.

Word was ATRs are to be flown. Can anyone confirm this?

I'll believe Gayjets flying for CAL when I see it. I'm not holding my breath...

I heard
 

that they are seriously going to be doing the CAL flying for CAL itself, in tricked out Beech Barons, GPS and all.......

Foster,
you are correct, sorta.... Rep. got the award but that deal is now dead, or at the very least in limbo. The deal was predicated upon Con Exp giving up the planes which they didn't. Everybody, republic ASA, comair, skywest, etc. are bidding for that flying. Who's going to get it? I don't have a clue!

Rep. don't have airplanes to fly for CAL. CAL asked CO-EXP for the airplanes back. They said NO. The controversy is goin to continue. Who ever grab that contract, is never be like CO-EXP....:D

I have heard that Cape Air is trying to increase it's ATR flying from just the 3 they have in Guam. Rumor around the company is that we might get some CO codeshare on the mainland. Of course, as always, just a rumor.

Actually this is not the reason for GoJet's existence. GoJet was formed because Trans States Airlines cannot fly 70 seaters (per American Airlines scope) and Hulas obviously wanted to get into the 70 seat market. So, GoJet was created. Trans States pilots had the opportunity to fly these aircraft but turned it down because of the sacrifice they would have to make in their contract. This is not a complicated situation, just an emotional one to the many pilots who feel they should have recieved the flying free of charge.

So, the fact is, GoJet was created to give Trans States Holdings access to the 70 seat market. Contension over union contracts is effect, not cause.

Wrong!

TSA has no problems having another certificate for 70 seat flying. If the flying was given to TSA from the start. Gayjet already hired street captains and Fo's (around 100) before they even offered TSA the flying.

And Yes TSA turned it down b/c the contract was a slap in the face and worse than MESA's. Plus TSA pilots would have no furlough protection but the Gayjet a$sh0les will... what the f*ck is that. And then who do you think will be stapled to the bottom of the senority list???? Do I even have to answer this...

The union stepped in and the TSA pilots fought for the flying, and then the company offered the sh$tty contract.

No, Gayjet was created:

- To work their as$wipe pilot with no contract/work rules (no block or better, 6 days on and overnite at an outstation. work another 6, etc) for the next 2 or 3 years, as the company drags the negotiation out. Don't believe those idiots who say it won't take that long. TSA's contract negotiation is going nowhere right now... Once they get a contract. I guarantee it will be worse then MESA's.
- Underbid all the united (Skywest, SHuttle, MESA) and other codeshare flying.
- Get rid of senior TSA pilots (2-15 years of service) and hire backstabbers (off the street) for less operational cost. I say 2-15 years of service, b/c anyone who has been at TSA for 1 year or less have been furloughed.

Stop coming up with lame excuses for those bastards...

I agree that TSA pilots used poor judgement turning down the chance to fly GoJet aircraft. They chose a poor time to pick thier fight, not saying they were wrong on the issue, they picked the wrong time for the fight. Having said that, I have heard a number of varying issues regarding thier contract. what "sacrifies" would they have had to made. At this point GoJet should unionize ASAP (It's my understanding they are going to join the Teamsters). But it's also true that TSA wanted to get into the 70 seat market and the scope clause prevented it.

Subin30, where do you get your info? I think you have it wrong. American will not allow TSA to fly 70 seaters. TSA could get a contract from Air Asia for 70 seaters and American's scope will not allow it. I believe Eagle is the only outfit that can do so.

Please supply info that can back up your statement.

I know it was the AA scope that wouldn't allow the 70 seat flying. Thats not my point. Gayjet was formed to get around that. Which is fine, nothing wrong there... then give the trans states pilot the opportunity to fly them with a decent contract.

But gayjet hired street captains and fo's (around 100 at the time, now around 150) to undercut trans states pilots. The flying was never offered to Trans states pilots until the union and pilot group fought for it. Trust me you wouldn't vote yes to that contract. Make one senority list and keep two seperate certificates. Do you see my point?

Shuttle/Republic certificate allows 70 seat flying, but CHQ doesn't. They are one company one pilot senority list. CHQ pilots can fly for Shuttle/Republic if their senority holds.

How would you feel if your company got some more flying and then say "F*Ck you, we'll just hire new pilots for that!" We'll just furlough you (60 and counting).

How do the Eagle pilots feel about the other Regionals flying in their system?...Just curious if this is the same situation with TSA and GoJets.

Although I can't speak for a eagle pilot. But I think it may be a bit different b/c tsa and gayjet is the same company. if eagle feels the same towards tsa and chq. ill have to respect that...

Well then, I suppose we agree. However, I think that you mispelled GoJet. :)

I see your point. One senority list for the two certificates. I am sure there are plenty of reasons they did not do that. Chances are that the reasons were not looking out for TSA pilots. I heard that they did offer it to TSA guys first. The soon to be furloughed guys want to jump over now. Again, I hear this stuff from a third party, so I can not validate this info.

None of which are valid or ethical.

Bingo!

They didn't offer GJ flying to the TSA pilot group via ALPA, they offered it to each individual pilot in the form of a personalized postcard invitation.

Some of the furloughed TSA pilots have gone to GJ, but the vast majority have not. None of my furloughed friends (numbering about 10 right now...) have made that move, and infact some went back to flight instructing rather than work for an alter-ego.

I can't believe people get on here and post and don't even know what they're talking about. Anyone that doesn't know for a personal fact what went down with GoJets doesn't deserve to spout off nonsense on here. Unreal.

First of all, the TSA contract clearly spells out what the company is supposed to do if they want to create a separate company to fly bigger equipment...namely, create one pilot list and pay industry average for that size of equipment. Everything else stays the same, even though it's two different companies.

Hulas and friends screwed us from day one. They violated that contract faster than a drunk prom date. They didn't set up one list, they didn't pay industry average, and they in fact left us out of it completely. The union sat down to "negotiate" with them, which was fascinating since the company already had blown off what they were supposed to do. Management made a couple final offers, one of which the pilots voted on. There were a lot of bad feelings around because of what the company had done to get to that point, especially given the fact that United gave TSA the flying because we TSA pilots had done such a great job for them. So it was voted down. I personally would have liked to have seen it voted in. But I can understand people's feelings on it.

So that's what really happened. If you're confused on that, why don't you actually ask someone that works at Trans States (like me) instead of just making stuff up.

Thank you dontsurf for setting these people straight. It seems that people will make crap up to try and justify what they are doing, so they can try and walk around without having to look at their feet in the terminal! You guys are bringing the entire airline industry down doing this flying. How can you try and rationalize it by saying 'they picked the wrong time to fight'?? Are you simple? This is THE time to fight it. Flying 70 seat airplanes for crap pay and work rules, yeah...good choice! And saying you're doing it for the quick upgrade so you can move on. . .well lets see you'll fly a 70 seat airplane for crap, so what now, move to a mainline carrier and fly a 737 for $20/hr?? Whats the point?

There are plenty of other regionals hiring, you didn't HAVE to go to Hojets, you CHOOSE to go to Hojets...KNOWING what happened between TSA and its management. If you can't understand why other pilots don't like you...well, good luck.

I really hope that TSA people are not going to Hojets. That is unbelievable if its true.

Lastly, I don't think that you can compare multiple regionals serving one mainline and this situation. Multiple regionals can work together fine. They just have to do what they can to keep from being used to whipsaw against each other. Look at before United went into bankruptcy, Skywest, AWAC, and ACA all flew together and everything was fine. AWAC and ACA choose not to lower the bar when it came their way. . .did it work out perfectly for them? Not really, but at least they choose to fight.

Hey G-Dog, off topic but weren't you the one flying for EVA?

I do.

No it doesn't. You may think it does but unless you practice law, you may miss its vagueness.

Of course he did, and I'm sure you have given 100% to that company since day one and deserve your salary delivered in cash on a silver platter.

Neither does TSA but that requisite obviously isn't important enough to keep you away.

You are right! TSA pilots did vote it down.

I didn't make anything up. I never argued whether or not you got a raw deal. I simply corrected the rhetoric that GoJet was created to screw TSA pilots. Again, this is not the case. TSA pilots may or may not have been screwed but GoJet was created for access to the 70-seat market.

Well Flyer00, this is a wonderful opportunity for you to save the industry. Since you are an expert at what everyone should be paid for a particular size aircraft, please present this forum with your research. How about posting a list of passenger capacity categories along with the appropriate pay. This will allow us all to make an easy decision about where we should and should not work. I'll be eager to make a life decision based on what you think I'm worth.

how could you say TSA pilots may not have been screwed by Gayjet? TSA is furloughing b/c of them. Wait a few more months. All of TSA's United flying will be taken by Gayjet. Give it another 2-3 years, I don't thinkg TSA will be around.

TSA pilots will be on the streets or they will be given a gayjet position and be stapled to the bottom. This works great for Hulas. Why pay 5-15 year captains when you can pay 1-2 year captains.

You think Teamsters is gonna get them a nice contract with industry average pay. I think Not!

TSA is furloughing, or at least they were furloughing. They have cancelled the August group. They furloughed for a couple of reasons.

1. Pilots are being displaced from the J41. None of the J41's were United flying.

2. TSA lost San Antonio flying because it was a pay per passenger contract with United as opposed to pay per departure. Because of the loss of routes, they have had to park some airplanes. The San Antonio flying for TSA was a completely different route structure than GoJet's San Antonio flying.

If United wants 70-seaters on their routes instead of 50-seaters, then that is what they are going to get, with or without Trans States Holdings. Yes, in the future, there may be routes taken from TSA and given to GoJet. Unfortunately, TSA pilots should have forseen this and signed on with GoJet. I'm not saying it was a good deal, but I think it would have been better than the alternative.

so hifly where is your list? I'm curious what you think you are worth? I'm betting you don't have the guts to post what you think pay should be for different size airplanes.

First of all, throwing my statement back at me doesn't make a very good point. This is a very weak way to debate.

Person A "Can you define prestidigitation?"

Person B "Oh yeah, can you define prestidigitation? Ooooh, zing!"

Second of all, my point was just that. I can't, nor can anyone else, make a list like that. Each individual has to decide for him or herself whether or not a particular salary is worth it or not. It is ludicrous to go around telling someone if they are getting paid crap or not.

first off I did make a good point because I called you out and I was right. Your are chicken to let everyone know what you really think.

second I'm not asking what the industry should decide (we already know by the current rates out their) I'm asking what you have decided. As you put it and I quote "Each individual has to decide for him or herself whether or not a particular salary is worth it or not." So what's you worth? It's a simple question with a simple answer.

Good point Heavy. These TSA folks never seem to respond to questions like that.

Bunch of hypocrites in my opinion.

Both Trans States and Chautauqua had TWE contracts with large severence penalties. When AA bought TWA, they chose to keep the former TWE contracts instead of absorbing the cost of severance.

That decision might have "screwed" Eagle, but it was a decision by AMR management based solely upon cost. CHQ & TSA pilots didn't get together and say "how can we steal Eagle's flying?" I'm pretty sure AX jet flying hasn't grown much (although markets have changed) while Eagle has grown every year since 9/11. If you Eagle guys want somebody to be ****ed at, blame the flushbAAcks.

Funny how some folks never seem to respond to statements like that.
:rolleyes:

No you are wrong. But I will forgive you, since your were most likely in High School when all this happened.

It had not one thing to do with severence penalties.

The TWA / AA acquisition had one big stipulation on it. That AMR buys TWA in bankruptcy court. AMR wanted this so that ALL PREEXISTING CONTRACTS could be null and void. AMR chose to keep TWE carriers b/c they were cheaper to operate than AE. They could have got rid of them like all the other vendors they chose to drop.


So it is ok to screw anyone long as it is not you? You don't think every company makes decisions solely based on cost? The whole reason that you are an "airline pilot" today is b/c you fly your emb for 5x's less then I fly a 737.

Son you are very pipely and have alot to learn in life!!!

Okay, I can admit it if I was/am wrong. Please educate me, o benovelent Skygod.

So what then about the clause in Chautauqua's contract that if American cancels the contract prior to its end (2013 I believe) they have to eat the cost of all the 140s? Of course its cheaper to operate a current contract than absorb the cost of a bunch of airplanes!

Nope, never said it was okay to screw anybody, and I don't work for Trans States or Chautauqua so that is a moot point as well. We could argue about how AA screwed TWA pilots, but that horse has been beaten so long ago its not even important. Same can be said about the flushbAAcks taking all the upgrades at Eagle.

I'm not in any of the sandboxes mentioned, I just think its asinine for some pilots to say "hey Eagle got screwed by Trans States, so its okay for GoJet to screw them". That logic fails the WTF test every single time.

Thanks for the lesson, dad. I'll keep it in mind:rolleyes:

That contract was between AMR and CHQ. Signed in 2000 and expires in 2010. It has nothing to do with TWA/TWE.

You obviously lack a basic understanding of debate and I fear it will do no good to continue. I'm not chicken to let everyone know what I think. What I think is that you can not go around labeling what I particular job is worth. It is worth a different salary, set of work rules, etc. to each individual to each situation. While flying a jet for x amount of dollars may be worth it to person y, that doesn't mean it is worth it to person z. Person z cannot say to person y, "you are being paid crap", or "your hours suck". That job also might not be worth it anymore after a few years to person y. It's just so dynamic. That was my point.

That has nothing to do with any TWE contract prior to the TWA acquisition. I'm pretty sure that contract was signed by AMR (and fought against by the union) AFTER the TWA fiasco. Therefore, it was a contract that AMR entered into, not one they absorbed via TWA. And like JiffyLube said, AMR got TWA AFTER bankruptcy in order to shed ALL debt and vendor contracts that they did not want. Why do you think that anyone who had TWA stock got ZERO for it when AMR took over?

Then why do you even argue the issue if you don't or never have had a dog in that fight? Also, I'm not a big AA supporter, but the TWA guys really are lucky to even have a job. If AA didn't come along and no one financed TWA (which I'm pretty sure would have been the case) those folks would have been on the street. How is getting a job, and in some cases getting a regional jet Captain job with more pay than at TWA a bad deal? Please explain that? Lastly on this point, some if not all Eagle guys (FOs really) are ****ed about the flowbacks, but that is the union and pilot group's fault for allowing it to happen the way it did.

Then what is your motivation to argue your points, and how can you competently discuss/debate the issues of AA/Eagle/TWA/TWEs if you have never been "in any of the sandboxes". Obviously you can't by your lack of knowledge of what went down with the whole AMR/TWA thing.

You are very miss informed about the whole "alter ego" - Connection carriers, and the TWA acquisition. While I don't agree with the whole GoJets deal, I really don't feel too bad for TSA guys or any other Connection carrier that has flying handed to a lower paying "vendor". What goes around comes around. Not that its right or moral, but it is business and to have the cojones to b!tch about what is being done to TSA when they do the same to others is just hypocritical.

Yep I got your point and I'm not debating with you. You got very bunchy with Flyer00 about what pilots should be paid and you wanted to know what he thought so you could make your life decision. I came back and asked you what you think pilots should be paid. You didn't and came back with the everyone is different speech, which I get. I just wanted to know what you believed. Just so that we have this straight, there is no debate going on now. That could only happen if you answered my original question so I'll ask it again. What do you believe you are worth to fly different airplanes?

I think hifly..
 

believes he is worth what ever blojets pays him... No more, no less... And it was /is worth the risk of working with no contract for no negociated wages in a new market for a morally corrupt/bankrupt owner. And all that righteous swill, the "They voted the flying down", "We are strong men with honor forging a new and unexplored path in the face of adversity" and the other crap that they have posted are just more defensive tactics to deflect the fact that they are not scabs, but replacement workers catching crap for being the new lost cause on these boards....... As I understand it, TSA voted the CONDITIONS down, not the flying.... In my 12 years of military service, men of honor stood up for what they considered right and didn't shy away from others when they were questioned. They forged paths that made it easier for others to get ahead, not to step on the backs of those who got there first. But hey, it all goes back to the old "I had to feed my family".....But there are and always will be other jobs out there... No need to take the first one that seems to be an easy way, a "Direct path to a jet job"... I am sure there are a million guys out there who would agree that dues paying is a necessary evil, but shortcuts are great. But in the long run, they cost us all by letting owners get away with cheap wages for what is, ultimately, a complicated job... And the lower we all go, from the regionals to the majors, the less this career becomes worth...I know this isn't the military, but codes of honor and ethics still have a place. This is the airlines, and we all know that many would eat their own young to get into one of those silver bullets, but at what point do you say enough. We all are worth more than this and need to get the esteem and wages back up. I left the regionals a few years ago, but it deeply saddens me that this is still a backsliding industry. Gojets is only the latest tumor in an already cancer riddled industry... I hope this all stops soon and we can all be proud of our chosen profession as well as our paycheck... Because people looked at me like a moron when I told them what I made... And, aside from being a moron sometimes anyway, I look back and finally see they were right...

sheet, hifly is a gojet pilot. that explains alot.

GoJet is an alter-ego airline and it has been from it's very beginning. You can't say that about any other airline in this discussion. -That's- the difference. And GJ would not exist if not for the scum who decided that their bank accounts were more important than their ethics and morals.