MEC Summary of Nicolau Remedy [edit:AmEagle]
 

Fellow American Eagle Pilots:
As you are all now aware, this morning we received Arbitrator Nicolau’s remedy award. We have spent
the better part of today reviewing the award. While we strongly encourage you to read the award for
yourselves, we are now able to provide for you this initial bullet point summary:

1. 244 American Eagle pilots will transfer to AA with the following:
a. In determining their initial equipment, the Arbitrator’s opinion requires that their initial
equipment be determined no differently than the transfers that had previously occurred
under Letter 3.
b. Their initial pay scale will be determined by when they should have flowed to AA under
Arbitrator Nicolau’s initial award (October 2009). For example, if the pilot should have
transferred to AA in June of 2007 and actually transfers to AA in June of 2010, he will be
placed on the 4th
pay step upon his arrival at AA.
c. Their A‐Fund vesting will begin based on when they should have transferred to AA under
Arbitrator Nicolau’s initial award but their “time of service” for A‐Fund calculations won’t
begin until they actually arrive at AA. When a pilot retires from AA, his A‐Fund benefit is
determined by a calculation that includes his ‘final averaged earnings’ and his time of
service. There is also a vesting requirement in order to participate in the A‐Fund. Under the
award, these pilots will receive retroactive credit for vesting, but not for time of service.
d. Upon transfer to AA, pilots will have their B‐Plan fund retroactively credited at 11% of 73
hours per month at MD‐80 First Officer rates of pay. The applicable rate of pay will begin at
first step based on the date pilots would have transferred to AA under Arbitrator Nicolau’s
original award and increase one pay step for each year thereafter.
e. Their sick bank will be adjusted to reflect AA’s higher accrual and higher cap. Therefore,
pilots transferring to AA will transfer their sick bank hours and have additional hours to
reflect the appropriate level of the sick bank had the pilot transferred to AA under Arbitrator
Nicolau’s initial award.
f. Their vacation bank will be adjusted to reflect any higher accrual rate at AA had the pilot
transferred to AA under Arbitrator Nicolau’s initial award.

2. To determine the 244 pilots who will receive the items listed in paragraph 1 above, the most
senior 286 flow‐through pilots will be asked to decide whether or not they are willing to transfer
to AA under these provisions. Once 244 out of the 286 have been identified, that will constitute
the maximum number of pilots who will receive the transfer benefits listed in paragraph 1
above.

3. Once the 244 pilots from paragraph 2 have been identified, the most senior 35 will transfer to
AA in June of 2010. AA may accomplish this transfer in one or two training classes, but must
complete the transfer in the month of June.

4. Following the June transfer of the 35 most senior flow‐through pilots who accept transfer, AA will
offer recall to all of the pilots furloughed on February 28, 2010.

5. Once the most junior AA pilot furloughed on February 28, 2010 has been offered recall, all flow‐
through pilots will be permitted to transfer to AA in strict AA pilot seniority order, but only the
most senior 244 who accept this transfer will be provided with the additional benefits identified
in paragraph 1 above.

6. Once AA has offered recall/transfer to all pilots on the AA pilot seniority list, including all Eagle
flow‐through pilots, 1 out of every 2 new hire positions will be offered first to American Eagle
pilots. American Eagle will not be required to release more than 20 pilots per month but is
required to make every effort to meet this ratio.

7. Once 824 Eagle pilots have transferred to AA under the provisions of paragraph 6 above, AA will
not be obligated to transfer any additional pilots to AA.

8. The Arbitrator has ordered the affected parties to negotiate the specifics associated with
accomplishing the transfer of 824 Eagle pilots to AA, noted in paragraph 6 above.
We are fully aware that there are additional questions surrounding this award and we are diligently
working to provide answers. We will post this bullet point letter on the ALPA.org website and update it
with a working Q&A as soon as possible.
Thank you for your patience as we analyze this award and determine the answers to your questions.
Fraternally,

EGL‐MEC Vice Chairman

Beagle what were your thoughts about the ruling? Just interested because you were pretty vocal about the subject.

I think it is a definite positive. Not as great as we'd like or deserve, but definitely a positive outcome to a nightmare of a problem.

Like anything in life, it devil is in the details so seeing how this all pans out over the next few months will be very telling on how good it really is for us.

In all, it is pretty much the type of outcome many were expecting. Hoping he'd offer a remedy to all Eagle pilots who'd be harmed by holding back the 244 was nice, but unrealistic. Arbitrations aren't about justice, they are about the law and we got a decent outcome based upon the law. It's not justice, but it is all we are going to get.

Agreed. It's good that people will be going over as a 2007 DOH more or less, concerning the vesting. I just wonder what the deal breaker is for some of those guys on the fence about going over.

IMHO, 90% of it is all about the money. Going over at the bottom would cost me $100,000 in the first two years. It'd take at least 8 years to break even. I'm 54 now. There's no quarantee I'd pass my First Class medical next month much less two years from now, so I'm throwing away $100,000 for what? So I can act like an Arrogant Anus in a big shiny jet? So I can sit reserve on an antique in LGA? What's the upside for someone like me?

For the first 150 or so going over at 3rd pay and vested into their retirement 2-3 years, there is a very positive upside. For the remaining middle-aged pilots and older, the negatives begin to outway the positives. For younger guys, it is the other way around.

I'm positive the first 35 seats will be filled and expect 90-95% of the 244 seats will be filled. Once hiring resumes at AA, I expect enough younger CAs will be found to fill the 1 out of 2 classes....but I don't expect that to happen for at least 4 years if not 5 or 6.

Aside from a few hundred flowthroughs (35 this summer and the other 250 or so, maybe in 1-3 years) all those slots are below the most junior AA furloughee. For any real benefit for either AA pilots or Eagle pilots, AA will have to start inviting both groups back to the party in substantial numbers.

I guess you could say AA pilots took a hit of having a few hundred flowthroughs come at some point before street furloughees, but considering they've got 9000 pilots, it's really a bump in the road. The real benefit or lack therof will be AA growth or lack therof and that's what should be the goal.

With AA growth everyone wins.

Just spewed a little... LOL

give me an industry perspective of just what you "deserve". -And please qualify that with happenings elsewhere in the industry

What if you all flow to AA, then APA rolls on scope, giving the ever so "deserving" eagle group the 100 seaters... then AA furloughs 3k guys because some start up contractor, (not eagle) gets the jets... LOLLLL!!!

ROFLMAO. Always fun to see another APA sock puppet spewing hate for Eagle pilots. What puzzles me is why the "World's Greatest Pilots" never have the yams to just stick to only one user name. Anyone know the answer? Is it because they have free internet in their hotel rooms?

MTF are you dudes talkin' about.

Some members of the APA are so rattled by this last ruling they have to use separate user names to express their dissatisfaction in a childish and taunting manner. No matter. All their taunts, rants and foot stomping won't change the arbitrator's ruling. Maybe they can resign from ALPA, form an in-house union and attempt a second bite at the apple...oh snap. Never mind.

Im just happy the whole letter 3 nightmare is over. Untill the next grievance is filed!!!!;)

Woo-Hoo! Agreed! While it's possible another minor L3 grievance can be filed, I think Nicolau was pretty clear about the resolution to this matter. Any questions we have will be clarified, but my understanding is all the parties thoroughly understood what the arbitration means. This isn't a contract negotiation or a mutual agreement, it's an arbitration resolution. There is no debate. There is no decision to be made about whether to accept it, ratify it or otherwise decide if it is a good enough document to agree upon. It's a decree. All parties have to accept it. That's what binding arbitration means. It's only idiots like USAPA who don't understand that concept.

I agree, but dont you think there will be some gray areas in the ruling regarding the implementation procedures?

Not many because most questions are asked off the bat. Like our contract, there's a ton of background information shared between all the parties clarifying what all the points mean which is not explicitly spelled out in the final document. Unlike our contract, this isn't a negotiated agreement; it's an arbitrated judgment. No party will be able to later say "That's not what I meant when I agreed to it".

I'm certain all questions by members will be answered quickly and within a few weeks because our union reps already knows 99.999% of them.

This sounds like a phenomenal deal for the flow through guys, considering what could've transpired. Does this mean Eagle is going to open the flood gates and hire a ton more?

Unfortunately not. Despite the panic attack presently taking place over at the APA Puzzle Palace there won't be massive hoards of lowly regional pilots slipping into the cockpits of the World's Greatest Pilots any time soon. After the 35 pilots go in June, the rest of the first 244 have to wait for AA to begin recalling pilots. That will probably be at least anther year. After the 244, the remainder have to wait until all AA and former TWA pilots have been offered recall. This will probably take about five years given it would follow the consequences a new AA-APA contract.

In short, don't count on any hiring at Eagle except to account for the new CRJ's and attrition as the economy improves.

basically recall in seniority order that was the original ae position.

Sorry- Ex TWA, never APA. Only user name I have/ever had ALPA SAFETY was already taken!!

Tell me more about that deserving stuff!

Me thinks the furloughed AA guys deserved to keep the left seat in the rj's.

Obviously you're just trolling and wouldn't want to understand although I'm sure you are capable of it. Have a nice life, Hobo. Hopefully you'll find something more rewarding than trolling in things which don't affect you and never have.

Some things for the 244 flows to consider. You will not be able to choose your equipment and base. Most of the 28 Feb furloughed pilots were S80 f/os in STL, so that might require the first 35 pilots. You will profer based on what AA shows available. The chance of DFW and ORD is zero. Most likely LGA, MIA and STL. There is a possiblilty of the 767, S80 in LGA, 767 and 737 in MIA and the S80 in STL. In STL all non TWA pilots bid behind the TWA pilots for a monthly schedule. You will be on reserve in STL for a long time. Reserve guarantee is 73 hrs. Some pilots are flown over guar, but nothing over 85 hrs is allowed. You have little control of how much you fly because AA tries to keep all reserve pilots equal in time. STL has only limited nonstops, making a fun 2 leg commute for many.

I am happy nobody is forced into doing something they don't want to. Now can you AE pilots do what is right and allow any flowbacks still at AE, to fly Captain?

Thanks for the info. While this may sway some of the FTs, many already commute from older, but now closed domiciles such as BNA and RDU so switching commute destinations isn't a big deal. Furthermore, some of those guys have been dying to get to AA for a decade. They'd go even if amputating a finger or two was required. Not me, of course. I don't need to fly a big shiny jet to feel good about my airline career. http://www.mazeguy.net/military/eagleglobeanchor.gif
Non sequitur. What does an arbitration ruling have to do with an expired LOA? The APA had the opportunity to "do what is right" for their own people by entering into negotiations to renew Letter 3. They declined.

The APA had the opportunity to stick with a negotiated solution to Letter 3/Supplement W issues. They walked out. True, the company torpedo about scope put a damper on the talks, but a complete walk out wasn't required. APA didn't like the agreement to begin with so it just gave them an excuse to dump the entire thing. If you want to blame someone for the expiration of Supplement W, please talk to the people at this address.

Blaming Eagle for the actions of the APA is as silly as me blaming APA for the actions of my union to force the flow through. It isn't morally correct to blame one entity for the actions of another.

I am happy nobody is forced into doing something they don't want to. Now can you AE pilots do what is right and allow any flowbacks still at AE, to fly Captain?[/QUOTE]

Ahh, no, and no. Primarily because of this lopsided agreement. Kind of funny when AA furloughed, all of the furloughed guys got into the left seat at Eagle just as fast as our own could get tossed out? But when our flow-thru pilots were supposed to go over when they were hiring, oh no, we can't do that. Kind of funny how this business kind of sucks sometimes, huh?

Ahh, no, and no. Primarily because of this lopsided agreement. Kind of funny when AA furloughed, all of the furloughed guys got into the left seat at Eagle just as fast as our own could get tossed out? But when our flow-thru pilots were supposed to go over when they were hiring, oh no, we can't do that. Kind of funny how this business kind of sucks sometimes, huh?[/quote]

When was this? Was it grieved? What was the decision?

lavman,

You are correct, this business has sucked for awhile. It looks like you will benefit from the 35 pilots going to AA in June. It sucks a little less for you this time than for ANY furloughed pilot.

Beagle,

Thanks for the explanation on why the flowbacks are f/os now. I was not attempting to blame anyone.

Just taking a pragmatic approach to what I think is a stupid statement.

Run from having to explain if you wish..........

What makes guys like you so deserving?

(standing by for your next dodge oh master of what, 4 or 5 usernames in the Eagle longe?)

Sorry if I was brusque in my explanation. Sometimes I forget that not everyone is a APA/TWA troll who doesn't really know or have access to the information on the history of Letter 3/Supplement W.

Back to the Flow Backs; they were treated exactly like Eagle pilots. Their displacement wasn't automatic. Once Letter 3 expired, they kept their seats despite some protests from our First Officers. It was only when Eagle had a major system-wide displacement bid that the FB's were put into the position of bidding what they could hold. Since their Eagle seniority began when they initially flowed back and since Eagle time-to-Captain is about 10 years, many were displaced to the right seat per their Eagle seniority.

While I think this was fair, some APA pilots do not since they think APA pilots are automatically superior to any Eagle pilot and, therefore, those "Eagle pilots" should have kept their seats.Your trollish behavior is obvious and, since you think you know so much, then you must also know that what Letter 3 says. They deserve this because that was what the letter states and intended.

Certainly. When their seniority can hold it, just like the rest of us...

Amen brother !!! They are getting close to holding t-prop captain soon.:eek:

I thought American pilots were afraid to fly t-props because they're too dangerous.

Doesn´t this make them eligible for the 824? :p

The APA had to retract that statement when the company threatened to sue them.

Beagle,
just curious what is the lowest doh from the group of 824 pilots?

The 824 slots are not pre-determined. Meaning once AA starts hiring 50% of the newhires will be AE CAs until 824 AE CAs have been hired. The AE CAs have the option to pass on the slot and it moves down to the next eligible AE CA. As of today if you start at the last flowthrough number and just go straight down the list assuming everyone will take the slot the DOH goes to about 6/01.

Keep in mind, there will be pilots more senior to that last flowthrough position also offered the spot who didnt get a flowthrough number before. There will also be attrition so some of those currently eligible AE CAs will be gone.

Thx Flyby. Curious what the senior guys will do. Doesn't sound like a super deal for them

It isn't for those who go straight to the bottom. Those who go over at 3rd year pay have a tough decision to make.

Plus, as you already alluded, many present older Captains will pass since they cannot afford to start over at $35K/year. My guesstimate is that 90% over 50 years old and about 50% of those in their 40s will pass. Beer bet anyone?
http://s24.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ey-beerhat.gif

Oh yea, I am with ya BP. The most junior pilot with a flowthrough number is 798 seniority with a 8/96 Eagle DOH. Out of all the guys senior to him, there are only 271 without AA #s. 174 of them are currently age 50 or older. I would be surprised if 100 of those 271 decided to take the AA flowthrough when the time comes.

This is very true especially with the higher paying long time ca's

Don't forget the AE flows must comply with the AA time to upgrade of 10 years (as the arbitrator ruled) as a condition of being a NEW HIRE at AA. I am not sure if the 10 year to upgrade is as of June 2010 when age 65 was the mandatory retirement date or in 1997, when the mandatory retirement was age 60. My guess is age 65. So no AE flows over 55 or 50 years old depending on the arbitrator's 10 year to upgrade date.
I know I am confused, but that is a normal condition for me.

From the latest Eagle ALPA hotline:

there have been questions about the “time to captain” clause mentioned in the award. We received clarification from Arbitrator Nicolau on Thursday that the previously calculated time of 10 years will apply to all flow-through pilots. A new calculation will not take place.

We'll know by the end of May. Should be interesting.

Anyone interested in starting a betting pool?