I would be strongly opposed to eliminating the title Regional from these forums. The forum structure is designed to be user friendly and easy to navigate (we hope), not to make a political statement.
Newcomers would be very confused. I don't really have an issue with adding the word "Contract"..ie "Regional/Contract Airlines" but this could cause confusion too..we would get people interested in contract flying jobs for foreign airlines. The industry term is "Regional"...how it evolved is not too important but we are not going to be able change it unilaterally. You guys think RAA is going to change their name to "CAA"? "Fee-For-Departure" airlines might be a little clearer, but even that term is becoming less relevant as contract terms evolve into more risk-sharing. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 819264)
I would be strongly opposed to eliminating the title Regional from these forums. The forum structure is designed to be user friendly and easy to navigate (we hope), not to make a political statement.
Newcomers would be very confused. I don't really have an issue with adding the word "Contract"..ie "Regional/Contract Airlines" but this could cause confusion too..we would get people interested in contract flying jobs for foreign airlines. The industry term is "Regional"...how it evolved is not too important but we are not going to be able change it unilaterally. You guys think RAA is going to change their name to "CAA"? "Fee-For-Departure" airlines might be a little clearer, but even that term is becoming less relevant as contract terms evolve into more risk-sharing. rickair7777, As others have said, the term is inaccurate, misleading and has already been politicized by airline managements and industry advocacy groups. I challenge you to de-politicize this type of flying by using a more adequate term. By calling the outsourced flying that represents more that 50% of domestic flying "regional" is a damaging misnomer. Since "Mainline" is now "feeding" the outsourced airlines, maybe a revision of terminology is in order. "Mainline" pilots and outsourced/scoped/contract pilots would primarily agree that the nomenclature needs to be revised. This "R" word needs to go away along with the other terms mentioned previously (commuter, feeder, etc). Many of these airlines have aircraft up to 86 seats and cover the Arctic to the Tropics. The term does a disservice to the industry, the public and the media. People need to know what company is operating the aircraft they are purchasing a ticket on. I'll agree that "contract" flying may be confusing to some but not nearly as misleading and confusing as the current term. "Fee for Departure" won't work because not all of these types of companies operate on the disappearing fee-for-departure contracts. Whenever I hear the word, I mention that it is a misnomer. If enough of us let people know the facts, we can eventually persuade others not to use it either. Let's brainstorm and come up with a term that accurately describes the type of flying that this sector represents. How about seat-scoped airlines, or outsourced airlines, etc? Like the Government said, "Regionals are the Mainline". Since outsourced airlines are the ones being fed, just change this forum title to Domestic Mainline and the Mainline forum to Domestic Mainline Feeders :D. winglet |
I don't think it makes any difference what people call regional airlines. I think the label major airlines should be reserved for mainline airlines that sells their own tickets on their own routes. It's absurd calling CHQ or SkyWest a major airlines for neither one of them sells their own branded flying.
It doesn't matter what we pilots call regional airlines. What matters is how can we make mainline management take back all flying regardless of size, or route length and make all pilots under one company seniority list and pay same payrates and benefits. |
Originally Posted by Lighteningspeed
(Post 819309)
I don't think it makes any difference what people call regional airlines. I think the label major airlines should be reserved for mainline airlines that sells their own tickets on their own routes. It's absurd calling CHQ or SkyWest a major airlines for neither one of them sells their own branded flying...It doesn't matter what we pilots call regional airlines.
Don't underestimate the enormous power of words. It's not by accident that the term "regional" was suddenly applied to the outsourced airlines at the same time the scope-relaxation campaign began.
Originally Posted by Lighteningspeed
(Post 819309)
What matters is how can we make mainline management take back all flying regardless of size, or route length and make all pilots under one company seniority list and pay same payrates and benefits.
winglet |
Mainline management isn't going to take back ANYTHING! It's the Airline PILOTS Who will have to REFUSE to extend further "courtesies".. THAT GENIE IS OUT OF THE BOTTLE NOW and THE only WAY IT CAN GROW BIGGER if for the next "Trick in the book"!! An Airline like a Skywest will have to Buy into a Major chunk of a United, American or a Delta for the "Right" to fly under their Colors with the Major Airline dictating the Criteria under which Pilots are Hired and deployed even down to the Uniforms and cockpit Equipment.. Once that entity is formed and ALL the scope pay is worked out with flow through proceedures in the manner that a player comes from Triple A ball to the Majors. Then all the "lesser" player Regionals might have to find a "niche" or fade away.. Or?? The "REGIONALS" might again have to return to Branded Flying in the Days of Air Wisconsin, Mississippi Valley, Golden Gate, Golden West, Ransome, Provincetown Boston, Henson, Aspen, Rocky Mountain, Boise Cascade etc. They connected With the majors but they weren't getting the fuel bill paid for them so they Had to be "complete" airlines, Not just a Limo/Taxi Service with wings. They Owned and published their routes and schedules. They managed their way to Success or Failure. And when I worked for one, (Golden Gate) their Pilots walked with pride because they weren't bound by any scope clause They were independent operators with interline agreements.
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 819264)
I would be strongly opposed to eliminating the title Regional from these forums. The forum structure is designed to be user friendly and easy to navigate (we hope), not to make a political statement.
Newcomers would be very confused. Just as APC tries to enlighten new pilots/pilot hopefuls on the ways of being a "real life" airline pilot, they need to know this as well. They need to know that there are few regionals left and the disticntion of regional/major/mainline is becoming more blured by the second. |
Newcomers better recognize..... We are contract carriers. Flying all across the US and canada/mexico (as many REGIONALS do), is not REGIONAL flying.
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Don't underestimate the enormous power of words. It's not by accident that the term "regional" was suddenly applied to the outsourced airlines at the same time the scope-relaxation campaign began. I totally agree and it begins with using the correct terminology to illuminate the manufactured confusion. Its now contracted small lift providers. Does that make you happy winglet? |
Lots of points here. Seems that term has been used as an excuse to give subpar wages and contracts for years now... the "regionals" have grown out of being regional.
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Originally Posted by stoki
(Post 819447)
Lots of points here. Seems that term has been used as an excuse to give subpar wages and contracts for years now... the "regionals" have grown out of being regional.
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