Where are you? (Pinnacle Union Chat)
 

Does pinnacle have a union? Is there a leader or some sort of elected officials in the union? Maybe they are getting bought off (I know in accordance with the policy...) to get the job done? I haven't seen anything from them regarding the new attendance policy and with the unions speedy reply I'm not overly optimistic. It's nice to know the company can change the language in the current (although long overdue) contract and the union isn't saying anything. I love seeing those dues hard at work.

Welcome aboard mesaba your going to live it here....

I'm not a Pinnacle pilot but I thought one of the Union reps comes here frequently and said that basically their memo had not yet become policy because the union threw a fit... I could be wrong, it's your union not mine. I'm sure someone else will correct me.

The MEC got the policy the same way all of the other pilots did with no heads up. After the last attempt at a policy (that we had blocked) the new one is a day old and not effective yet. Working on it... All the reps (except the top MEC) are line pilots flying 95+ hours as I type this on my van ride to an 8 hour overnight. Keep in mind the latest negotiations debacle and mesaba purchase prior to a holiday weekend kept us all on the phone figuring out legal precedence, options, and implications. What would you like, instant response would be difficult when the company isn't giving us any lead time to all the changes.

Don't get me wrong, we have issues, but have you tried to call your reps before blasting them on a public board?

It is very easy to blast your fellow pilots who volunteer much of their time for the union. What are you doing to help improve things at Pinnacle?

Sure blame the guys that pay their dues and not the ones that get paid for taking ALPA leave.
There are a lot of ALPA people getting paid for not flying. It's well within someones right to know where our dues are going.

While this may be true, I think most of our leave is paid out to committee members (ie PBS) rather than the MEC reps. I know the two guys in MEM are flying full lines and have been for a while. Hell, one of them was on reserve last month.

We have 1 on full time leave (chair), negotiator(s) bought off for actual negotiations, and occasional buyouts for the vice-chair. The only leave beyond that for reps are MEC meetings which are preassigned 2-3 times a year, 2-3 days in length, and worth less than what a typical trip yields and really screws up the month's bid. This is NOT a money-making opportunity as a rep. The only "money" that shows up is for a cell phone expense (part of the bill)- which after having to up your plan for all the additional phone calls is pretty much break even. O- and there is a $100 a year to have to PAY for insurance in case you screw up trying to cover someone's tail. Yea, making big cheese let me tell ya. Those who think this is all money have to look at it and see it's like the rest of the industry- the top can make some good coin as a "union guy" but the rest of us are at the opposite end of the stigma. I don't think you will find a single status rep who does the work for the money- it's because some want to help others and try and get crap done and a bad situation made better. Keep also in mind that most guys are dealing with their reps on THEIR time off- nights, weekends, early mornings, holidays, etc. I'm not b*tching about it, but it is extremely frustrating for those to start the "what have you done for me" routine when they have not even picked up a phone for answers and think that this is some high paid lavish "job" with benefits. It's volunteer work for fellow pilots, and yes- YOU are the union. Look at other carriers that have been successful in mgmt altercations, then look how our group operates. I can't advocate anything but our performance is back up after being put on ICE! Yea, how about "what has the union done" now? I won't sit here and knock fellow pilots but I will say this- before you cry out to the public that things aren't going your way and it's you rep's fault answer these questions....

1. Have you contacted your reps to ask the questions that concern you?
2. Have your passed on any views or ideas to your reps?
3. Have you told you reps what you would do differently?

A rep is an extension of the group he/she represents. Make sure your part is heard. I have about 30 guys that call me regularly that I have NEVER met in person or flown with, they ask the questions, give feedback, vent, etc. There are also another 20 or so that I know as either friends or have flown with that call/email/text to get their info. These guys are all livid, just like the rest of the pilots, but they are able to at least tell me what they are looking for. Everyone pays their 1.95% and all come to work, do the job, and go home- how many take the same amount of time to complain as they do trying to make a difference? It's amazing what can happen when folks work together instead of just being angry with each other. Mgmt has always been a "divide and conquer" strategy group- see how well it's working for em?

Now, if you want to talk about where we are, what we have accomplished, and what's to show for it.... If you are MEM based I would be surprised if you are unaware of what guys are wanting to change. If you aren't MEM based I think you should ask your reps about it. I'm not going to start throwing the crud around on a public board. Feel free to email me, I'm sure if you are at 9E you can figure out who I am.


*This is not a knock on the OP or anyone else, but this is my vent and I do feel better- thanks. Talk to your reps if you don't like what is going on- it's the ONLY way you can say your voice is heard.

Be that as it may, but giving a rep a call and trying to get an answer from those in the know is only fair.


How would you like it if someone jumped the chain of command (say went to management rather than pro standards) for something you had done?

Higney facts have no place in Internet conspiracy theories. I kindly ask that you delete your post.....

Cheers to you.... Enjoy the beers tonight in my absence.

I'm not sitting here with me arms crossed saying you, higney, aren't doing what you can or aren't putting the effort out. My biggest complaint is this; I, we, may be the union. I can pick up my phone and call/text/email/or whatever to the lec reps and if I had/have a personal work issue or have something minor I would most certainly do that and do. However we are dealing with some major issues: contract, attendance policy, aquisition of another airline ect and I feel the union should be addressing us, not individulal pilots calling the local reps to see what's going on. More specifically I feel the mec should be addressing us more and advising. Note....these are some major issues and they all can't be solved in one day and I understand some of these things take some sort of time. After listening to the conference call a week ago and the "plan" (lack there of) is bull. I feel we need to stop being so political and do what needs to be done, minus a work action. There were a couple of guys asking the chairman, whats next and what plan do you have? All I heard was a lot of "ums" and we are going to talk and try to do some informal picketing. Why hasn't this been going on anyway? It's time for the leaders to step up and address this group with a serious game plan.
The mec seems to have no idea and it is showing. Meanwhile the company can change a policy, redefine a sick event, violate this and that and there is nothing coming from the top. That is my problem...

EXACTLY!!!

Hell, I lost money last year doing this job. I'm happy to do it; but it is ludicrous for someone to complain about how much money we make doing "volunteer" work for our fellow pilot group. :confused:

Hey, I agree with the lack of leadership. We need action and we need it now. That's not to say illegal job actions, it's not to tell everyone "hey, be safe"- it just doesn't work right now when folks see 200% for open time and are in fear of what happens if they call in sick. I think we have had people using the mindset of "A bad schedule is 1 sick call away from being great" and pilots have used sick calls for "personal days". I won't blame the pilots- it's a mix of PBS, a lack of pilots (high time lines), and the apparent inability for schedulers to take a pilot's drop/swap/trade requests and put effort into making things happen. In the end, everyone comes to work and "does their job" but doesn't go any farther by adding some personal touch. Unfortunately morale is in the toilet, everyone is simply covering their tail instead of trying to work together, and the results are anger and hostility to everyone from everyone.

As far as leadership- something must be done. Picketing and family awareness events historically don't get much turnout but there are many ideas being thrown around. In the next MEC meeting we will be working to deal with the MEC's of the other 2 carriers, our contract, and our strategic plan with action going forward. There are legal lines to cross which helps us, and the company wants dual qual- which they can't have until we have a contract. I would also expect a very short ICE period at this point with the purchase after it is apparent the healthcare roadblock was backloaded with a carrier purchase.

There are lots of pilots who are angry, we know we need action. I'm sure you have seen the chairman's update by now and it's unfortunate that the company still hasn't told us what the heck they want to do. Expect info to start coming in the next couple weeks as legal, MEC's, and the company have time to have their meetings and make strategic plans.

Where in the world is our mec chairman? I haven't heard anything lately, nada zip. Before I hear, call your reps, I have. I think the "leader" needs to lead this group. Attitude reflects leadership and we have none...

Also, just recieved the latest update and there was a reference about where we go from here around the 28th of this month. Well I thought there was suppose to be some update and ideas the Friday after the conference call. Well where is the update from that Fridays meeting? This is getting worse and worse...
Where is the leadership?

deleted...

Higney

You guys must know by now that the MEC is totally losing the pilot group?? I have not heard anyone say anything good about what is going on. I do have to agree with some of the other posters, where is our leader? He has been totally MIA as of the last 6+ months. You guys are totally losing this pilot group and its getting much worse. You guys HAVE to correct this situation ASAP. I remember the union said they would get much better with the flow of information to the pilot group, and it has not, its gone totally backward. You have to regain some control here, because you are about to lose it forever.

It is worth remembering that MEM Captains tried to put forth Charlie K. as a possible rep last year--you want to talk about an agent for management?

Keep in mind that there are a lot more people with views like Pete T. who would love to get in office and sell you down the river. The two you voted out are practically socialists (the real definition) by comparison.

Fun story about Pete T. Back when I was there MSP ops was still in a trailer. This was right after 9/11 when we had the bogus "furlough" at NWA's direction to make a grab for federal funds. I will *never* forget Pete crowing about all the open time he was picking up with those guys gone (they were furloughed after bids were published so everything went to open time).

This was the same time Pete was running for MEC office back when it was only EXA 129. This type of pilot is your real enemy in the ranks--and the leadership needs to recognize it before the junior pilots team up with anyone out of frustration and recall the wrong people.

I am told that the LEC updates are the only communication pilots are receiving. Not good.

I'm pretty happy with the communication from my base reps, and I have to say that has gotten MUCH better since the cleansing last year. Now, as far as communications from the MEC chair.....I'm not happy at all, and I've made that clear. Even if it's a "There's a meeting at the end of July, but until then we've got nothing" in a weekly format would go a long way towards calming guys down. SOMETHING is better than silence. I know there's a ton of crew room talk about a recall, but there's a couple of things that need to click into place. First, we have to have someone willing to do the job of MEC chair ready to go when we recall. Having drawn out elections for an MEC chair position and getting someone that has an "Oh, okay. If no one else will....." attitude isn't going to help us out. Second, people have to keep in mind that if/when it happens, there's gonna be a delay while the new guy is brought up to speed. Don't vote for recall then get angry because we don't have a TA two weeks later.

I do know he's told me to my face he doesn't care about guys on reserve, so any union position he gets put up for, I'm voting for the other guy or gal.

Not even receiving an LEC update.... and I'm in the supposedly "rogue" base...

NL and I got a MEM update out a couple days ago.. We want change in leadership, but right now we have the "North vs. South" battle. I'm sure the fireworks on the MEC meeting Agenda will surface soon..

When you can't do the job- leave, when you won't leave removal is required. It's business.

Higney, can you elaborate on that at all? Let me say communication from the lec was better after ta1 was voted down and since then everything has gone down. Although, I do appreciate the info you and NL sent out.

With that beig said, I will ask again, where in the he11 is our mec chairman? It doesn't take much to do a weekly or bi-weekly message and address your pilot group. I'm sick if people saying, " call your reps." I have. But I think it is vital in terms of unity and leadership for the chairman to address the group. In terms of those two basic fundamental things, there are none. If he can't handle the job or pressure, then it's time for him to go back to the line and earn his 900 pay once and for all. If a recall is in order so be it, if he needs to step down so be it. I don't care what people are saying in terms of a change in leadership now because it might stall things, well ladies and gentleman nothing is getting acomplished and there is no leadership. As I have said before, no one needs to advocate a work action but a chairman can rally the troops and advocate that everyone fly the book. Nothing more and nothing less. If we want to move forward WE need to do it but we also need a leader who will take charge and do what needs to be done.

I agree and share your frustration. I just pointed out there would be some lead time towards getting a new MEC chair up to speed because I know our pilot group. We'll have some guys wondering why the company didn't just roll over and cower in a corner two days after electing a new chair. I have no doubts that there are some that would back a recall AND expect a quick 5-7 day resolution to the problem.

Unless something changes drastically very soon, I'd say that a change in leadership is almost inevitable.

You reps are busy flying the same 90 hour lines you are. Your MEC chair is (I believe) on a full time buy.

That said, be careful in your zeal to remove Scott that you know what will replace him...and who will take the vacant LEC seat. As noted above, there are plenty of pro-managment stooges just waiting for an opportunity to corrupt the process.

I won't elaborate on a public board but will chat via PM or email. Only requirement is to tell me who you are so I know who I am speaking with... I'm pretty good at keeping your identity G14 classified.

Just curious, aside from a communication or two, what would you have him do to "lead" us, where would we go? But before you answer that you should know that precident has been set in court that if he even hints at a slowdown of any kind, such as a "fly the book" campaign, we (9E ALPA) will be sued and you can kiss any chance of release goodbye.

So let me ask again, what would you have him do? What would you do if you were our fearless leader? Who knows, maybe if you have good enough ideas you can be on constant buyout an see how much you like the job.

Don't get me wrong, I understand your frustrations about communications, but there isn't alot you MEC chair can really do. It is really up to all of us on the line to make an impact. You have the parking brake under your hand... not SE.

obviously.

So what would you do? I'm not trying to defend SE, but if you aren't bringing anything to the table you need to get out of your high chair.

I think they all said 'communicate' but I dont have a marketing degree so I might be reading it incorrectly.

Sorry mommy, I'll get out of my high chair after I finish my kool-aid. :rolleyes:

The point is, since you missed it, no ONE man can do SH!T.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO!!! OMG PLZ TELL US

First off I would start by addressing the pilot group and continue to address them instead if being mia. It wouldn't take much to communicate with the group weekly or bi-weekly. Heck he is after all bought off month after month and he has choosen to take on this responsibility. I understand that he may be busy but the least he could do is address the group.

Second, I have said he can't advocate a work action but reminding th pilots to fly the book isn't a work action. It's not like telling everyone to call in sick or do some sort of slow down. If he addressed the group he could remind them of what's at stake. The union would not get sued for advising pilots to fly the book. If doesn't take much to lead and he hasn't been. There are plenty if things he could improve on and we've expressed them and he hasn't done anything.

Wow, I didn't see that response coming from a mile away. Input the appropriate shorthand teenage text message format here____________. Some people would rather have someone else do all the work and sit back and complain...

I agree with you about to communications, it would be nice to see something now and then. Unfortunately it seems that when there is nothing to report, nothing is put out to us. If you are so concerned about communications you should consider volunteering on the communications committee. Its all done by 1 guy and he could use some help, plus then you would have the answers to all the questions you seek. When our comm chair is on a trip or busy with representations either he has to a) sacrifice his rest on a layover to write the communication or b) let it wait until he is finished with his trip.

Is this who I think it is? People have volunteered to that committee but as far as I know they are turned down. PM if you'd like.

Some people are not capable od doing the work. That does not take away their right to express their opinion as to the quality of work of those who are ELECTED officials. Remember that elected officials expressed their desire to perform the duties that they were elected to do, and in turn took all the work upon themselves. It is not the responsibility of the rank and file to baby sit elected officials within the union to ensure that they are doing the so called "work". It sounds as if your rank and file has splilt from the MEC and while I am sure some well thought words and properly placed mirrors could bring them back on the surface, it will never again be whole as long as this MEC or this rank and file are still around.

Both are great!

Picketing (could be a waste of time, but shows unity)

Taking a serious campaign against 9E mangmnt ( new billboards, newspaper ad's, new stickers etc...)

There has been nothing done for years now. Heck we had our first all pilot call in over a year last month. He should be having all pilot calls once a month. To many of the rank and file it looks like our MEC is a total bunch of wussy's. That might or might not be the case, but how would we know??? The MEC puts nothing out!!!
If tossing SE is what this group needs then so be it. All I hear on the line is how much the 9E union is a bunch of wussy's, and they do nothing but watch all this happen. I defended our union for a long time, but I have stopped, because my mindset is changing too.
The LEC's did put some stuff out and it was better then the past, but this has gone on way to long. The MEC needs to start playing hardball, and if you dont you are going to lose this pilot group... I called to volunteer 3 years ago. I made 4 phone calls, and not one was returned. So I also am tired of hearing... "if you dont like it, volunteer and make a change."

Yeah but remember.... if you don't put more effort into it than that, you probably don't REALLY want to volunteer....

(imho 1 phone call should be enough, whether or not someone picks up)

You want to volunteer? Shoot me a PM, email, text, or call me. There are enough guys on this board that will tell you that I will put you to work.

Well - you will, man. In fact, now that I'm where I'm at I haven't had any issues....

but for those pilots who "complain" about the work of the union, and are told that they should volunteer, they've got a tougher road....

trust me, I know.