Who will be the 1st Regional(to increase pay)
 

Who is going to be the first Regional Airline to sign a real contract with real pay now that more than 50% of all domestic flying is not done by the majors anymore? Will the regionals keep comparing each others contract and pay or will one of them man up and demand A LOT more money or else let the airline fold?

Why would they pay any more money when classes are full every time they advertise for pilots? They should pay less.

What's to "man up"? Give away money? No, they're not going to do that. Airlines aren't going to fold because they paid the pilots too little.

Pilots get paid too little because they accept too little. There are too many pilots. While that may not be the case at some point in the future, as soon as there was any shortage of cheap pilots, they could double the pay (that won't happen) and it would still be cheap to hire $35,000/yr pilots instead of $17,500/yr.

You'd have guys frothing at the mouth to get out of their C172 CFI job (after the 1500 hours, of course) to sign up.

I'm moving this to the hangar talk forum.

Tony

I bet we see panic hiring before the 1500 increase prior to any bump in pay...

"Pilots get paid too little because they accept too little."

Wrong.

If that were true Spirit, JetBlue, Allegiant, and Hawaiian would not have gotten a raise. Why didn't the airline just say no and replace them? The regionals need to stand ground and it needs to happen now. Team up with the majors and demand tighter scope so there can be leverage for more money.

Pay was low because everyone thought they were moving on. Well for many the regional level is a career. Pilots need to fight for proper pay right now.

They thought they were moving on... so they accepted $17,500 a year... like I did.

What you think you need, or don't need to do, to increase pay is fine. But the facts remain. Pilots willingly accept poor pay. It's not a new experience. There's just a lot more of it because the low end of the industry, the "regional" contract airlines, are HUGE compared to 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago.

Tony,

From what I know of your background you were at Skywest before you went to Lagos. Neither outfit have a union to my knowledge, so I won't hold against you the fact that you don't seem to understand that we as pilots get paid what we negotiate in our contracts. Historically speaking, we've always negotiated a low first year pay in favor of higher wages for the middle of the road guys, and I don't agree with it. Therein the problem, none of us had the opportunity to start a regional gig with high pay, because like unicorns and Santa Claus, they don't exist. So it's up to us now to negotiate good rates across the board.

To the OP,

I believe Republic has a real opportunity in their hands, and could be the first. I'm not holding my breath, but they do have a great opportunity in their hands, and the rest of the industry will negotiate based on their outcome.

goaround

I bet you're right. They'll get as many cheap pilots as they can, because once 1500 takes effect, they will have a tough time filling up classes and pay has got to start increasing.

I read recently that Embraer is developing an airliner they hope will be SINGLE Pilot, released around 2025....Wouldn't that be a kick in the ass.

As mentioned above a huge airline like Republic, could, and should be the first.

A lot on the line if it happened there.

GLA... They can only go up from where pay is now :rolleyes:

Funny cause I made a bet with guys in my newhire class at Trans States back in 1999 that by the time we retire, 2030 in my case, we will see Single Pilot Airliners...

HAHA! You sir, just made my day! I do feel a little bad for all the guys at Great Lakes...but I guess they chose to work there.

Another part of my experience was local union president. Thanks for the info.

Edit for tiny bragging rights: twice voted in local union president, and once voted to SAPA at SkyWest (I won by one vote).

Sounds like a good idea...until the pilot has a heart attack and dies somewhere over the Atlantic en route to the US from Amsterdam, but come on...what are the chances of that happening? I mean, that would never happen, right??? Oh wait, crap.

Well you sure don't post like it brother.

Fly safe,

goaround

I'm not advocating those positions. I'm stating them as (my view) of fact. Yes, they should be paid more. That's obvious. But thinking some regional will "step up" and hand over more money.... ain't gunna happen.

Most likely the next airline to lose their partner contracts. Cheap is in - especially when you're a subcontractor. Don't ever forget that you don't actually work for the livery on your tail.

Air Canada JAZZ pilots. They have and continue to be the leaders in pay overall in North America.

I don't see why 1500hrs is much of an issue. I was right around 2,000hrs or so when I was hired and wasn't abnormal at all. Given that no one has hired for a few years I'm betting there are a lot of 1500hr+ guys out there.

My opinion, this law won't change anything in the near term and only add 6-12 months on the long term.

What if management said, "fine, we'll raise all FO pay by 50%." What are the chances of our union saying, "we will not accept the FO raises unless you can do the same for the Capt rates."

It's happened in the past with regards to management wanted to give sign on bonuses to new hires.

1500 hour rule...
 

I'm not so sure the 1500 hour rule is going to change much of anything. Two days ago, I spoke to the director of the "fast track", 300-hour wonder school I went to. He told me that as is stands now with the information that's out there, he'll still be able to operate as a 300-hour program. I suspect the hacks in DC will put in some exclusions and waivers that will knock a lot of teeth out of the rule. But hey, who knows for sure, right?

Times have never been more uncertain in the regional industry, economy is still and is projected to remain stagnant, oil prices will continue to rise. We couldn't get good contracts back when things were good, how do you expect things to get any better when most regionals are in survival mode?

I think current negotiations as well as upcoming ones will be considered successful if pilots actually mange to keep what they currently have. :o

Hey that's the attitude! And management continues to salivate at the collective resignation. I would think you would be hungry by now being furloughed and all! :confused:

I am surprised regionals don't start pay for training again. If I owned a regional I would make both captains and FO's pay for a job. I bet I could get at least 20k from FO's and maybe 10 or 15k from captains. I guarantee would have a stack of resumes on my desk the first day. "Gotta pay those dues right"? "Build that turbine PIC. It will open doors"?

There are few less business savvy professionals out there than airline pilots. How many other professionals pay between 40k and 100k for training and then work for less than peep show janitor wages for years on end? And so many of you have been totally duped by the unions. Particularly the regional guys. ALPA is run by a bunch of bottom feeding political hacks that charge you 2% of your salary to blow smoke up your posterior. The only leverage regional pilots have in negotiations for pay would be to deprive airlines of their services by quitting and going someplace better. Unions have saw to it that it would be foolish to do so. Good job ALPO. Unless your company sells their own tickets you are always going to be at the mercy of the next bottom feeder out there.

Yes I am a fool. I used to belive this could be a lucrative profession. While I do love the flying I hate about everything else about this business. I learned my lesson and am working on my exit strategy at the moment. For those of you that think you have made it in this business, you are only fooling yourselves. If you were to get furloughed tomorrow or your airline were to go T.U. where do you think you will go and how little will you be payed?

Sounds like a lot of you didn't do your research before perusing this career. I'm not in this for the money and never will be. I never had any money, my family never had any money so I'm used to not having any money. I know how to live off what I have. I never expected to get rich in this field. I know some of you Riddle guys I went to school with have a ton of money, or your families do anyway. I would always see you pull up in your BMW's and whatever. Hear people talk about their daddy's airplane. Must be nice. So now that you don't have any money and the money you were "promised" isn't there you are all freaking out. It's your own fault for not being happy with what you chose, not the airlines you work for.

I am all for higher wages and better work rules. I agree it could be a hell of a lot better and we should fight to get what we deserve. Why does it seem so many people want stuff handed to them? Like the airlines are gonna be like, "sure here you go." You have to fight to get what you want. I guess too many people are so used to having everything handed to them on a silver platter. I'm just tired of hearing guys complaining about it. If you don't like it either A: let's do something about it or B: quit so we don't have to hear your whining and open up a spot for the people that want to be here. If you knew what the pay was when you took the job, and didn't like it, then why did you take the job?

I agree with most of your post except that comment. Why are you in it? For your health? And please don't give me that: "I always wanted to be a pilot" crap. You can be a pilot, its called playstation 3. I chose this career to make a living. You are right, I didn't do very good research though. Nevertheless, a job is what you do to make money. This is the job I do. It doesn't pay enough. I don't do it for fun. What I do for fun is limited to my measly couple days off here and there and the few pennies I have left after my bills are paid.

Mesa duh...they already did it with their new contract!

Great post

I never went to Riddle, but it sounds as though you may have some deeper issues with you and your families financial situation.

I never thought I was owed any certain wage automatically. 10 years ago when I made the jump to get into this industry there were twice as many legacy jobs to be had and the pay was around 50% higher. 10 years ago 55% of domestic departures were not being done in RJ's. 10 years ago CRJ 700's 900's E-170 and 190's didn't exist. It would have been impossible 10 years ago to predict 9-11 and the takeover of domestic flights by RJ's. 10 years ago there was a much different career progression than we have today. Nobody was sitting in the right seat of an RJ for 7 years then.

Quit you say? More RJ pie for you? Why yes, I will quit as soon as I can. You may have all of the turd sandwich you can eat. Bon appetit.

Plus



Equals status quo.

Nationwide / International "regionals" will keep getting bigger, gobbling up little(r) airlines along the way, and displacing high(er) paying airline jobs, planes will keep creeping up in size toward 100 seats or more, and there will continue to be an endless oversupply of "I'm not in it for the money". Overall, your wish will come true.

I guess working is illegal
 

So I made it to 700 some odd hours before I got furloughed, does this mean I can't get recalled now? Funny, the government is still requiring payment of my loan to Sallie Mae, but now by legislative fiat I am not allowed to return to a job I am entitled to. Meanwhile California is making it illegal for me to flight instruct without paying the state thousands of dollars a year for accreditation at a time when that kind of money can't be made CFI-in. I guess the government just does not want me to work or fly.

I'm sure your Dispatcher will take over from the "Comand" center and save the day :rolleyes:

The only way the regionals get bigger is if the majors allow them to. Regional flying is contract work. The employees at majors need to demand a stop to the rising contract work in all areas not just the pilots. When the contract work stops, the pay will go up.

It may seem useless to fight for what is right, but without a fight nothing is accomplished.

I think most of you forgot that Comair already did this. The only catch was no one else had the balls to do the same, instead they lowered the bar even further. End result, we had to take pay cut after pay cut to be in line with all the other regionals.

Horizon Air pilots has not given it back and have paid a high price for it.

You sir, need to seriously stop shortchanging yourself. You can easily fetch 35-40,000 for captains.

Eagle Jet International, Inc.

whoa! Who are these creeps!?

It's been said on these forums many times about how things are different for the rest of the world.

When you apply to any US major airline (except maybe Southwest), you don't need a type rating or time in type. The rest of the world does.

But, the rest of the world doesn't care about 1000-1500 PIC turbine, either, just to get an FO job flying a bigger airplane.

Ok. Check back with me in ten more years and let me know how it worked out.

Overall, another metric that won't change. The guy who is voting at that major airline for new work rules. Him/her taking a pay cut so that they can subsidize their own company pilots to fly a 50 - 100 seat jet (over the price currently paid at a contract airline).... not going to happen.

Promise of new, bigger jet will trump that every time.

Plus

"I'm not in it for the money"

Equals

Status quo

You're not fighting a company. Your in a battle with fellow pilots.

Just curious..
Could you provide a source for your statement? 50% done by regionals. I might be wrong, but I think you may mean 50% of mainline departures at a few of the mainline carriers.

Crappy pay at regionals is the mainline pilots fault.

1. lather.
2. rinse.
3. repeat.