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SKYW to buy XJT rumor?
Whats the deal with this rumor? Seems to be heating up in a few different places? I haven't read/heard anything remotely reliable yet though.
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only thing i've heard is skywest might be getting some mesa 900's and 700's.
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It is red hot all over the place here at XJT. They are welcome to buy us, but Jerry will run into the same wall he ran into last time with us, it is contractual, that the lists have to be merged in the event of a merger or buyout, simple as that. So if they feel like dancing, by all means.
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Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 846659)
only thing i've heard is skywest might be getting some mesa 900's and 700's.
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Heck, we haven't even heard from our NEW CEO since he started here in the spring. XJT, as of now seems to be driving 65mph in second gear with no one at the wheel. Burned out work groups which breeds low moral. A management that seem to be putting the finishing touches on their own beautiful golden parachute packages and no real info on our future. It has been one of the quietest summers, communication wise, that I can ever remember here.
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Woo hoo!
Yeah, another airline rumor. We haven't had enough of them lately!
Sorry guys, it's all meant in good cheer. If it goes down, I hope all concern come out as well as possible. |
Heard it from both my buddy at SKW and ASA that they will merge the three groups into large airline with one list. SKW buddy says their management really does not care about having ALPA anymore like they used to. XJT scope still stands and it seems SKW may want to give it another go. We'll see if its true.
Does SKW still have the E145 on their certificate? |
Originally Posted by cybourg10
(Post 846799)
Heard it from both my buddy at SKW and ASA that they will merge the three groups into large airline with one list. SKW buddy says their management really does not care about having ALPA anymore like they used to. XJT scope still stands and it seems SKW may want to give it another go. We'll see if its true.
Does SKW still have the E145 on their certificate? As far as alpa on property, the last vote management fought awful hard against it. Not sure why they would have changed their mind now. |
Originally Posted by nigelcobalt
(Post 846801)
As far as alpa on property, the last vote management fought awful hard against it. Not sure why they would have changed their mind now.
Considering that, then maybe SKW (seeing the inevitable coming) would just take ExpressJet for pennies on the dollar of what they offered the first time, and just let the union take over anyway. The only big problem is that they would lose their ability to whipsaw ASA with SKW pilots as everyone would be under one roof. On the other hand, that kind of economy of scale would create massive savings and make them a force to be reckoned with when competing for contracts. Heck, with that many planes and pilots they could pull a Republic and go their own way. XJT Branded II? :eek: |
Originally Posted by iPilot
(Post 846808)
The rules changed this year that will basically ensure the next vote will pass. IIRC, before any non-vote was considered a NO where now it's not counted at all.
Considering that, then maybe SKW (seeing the inevitable coming) would just take ExpressJet for pennies on the dollar of what they offered the first time, and just let the union take over anyway. The only big problem is that they would lose their ability to whipsaw ASA with SKW pilots as everyone would be under one roof. On the other hand, that kind of economy of scale would create massive savings and make them a force to be reckoned with when competing for contracts. Heck, with that many planes and pilots they could pull a Republic and go their own way. XJT Branded II? :eek: |
Originally Posted by iPilot
(Post 846808)
The rules changed this year that will basically ensure the next vote will pass. IIRC, before any non-vote was considered a NO where now it's not counted at all.
Considering that, then maybe SKW (seeing the inevitable coming) would just take ExpressJet for pennies on the dollar of what they offered the first time, and just let the union take over anyway. The only big problem is that they would lose their ability to whipsaw ASA with SKW pilots as everyone would be under one roof. On the other hand, that kind of economy of scale would create massive savings and make them a force to be reckoned with when competing for contracts. Heck, with that many planes and pilots they could pull a Republic and go their own way. XJT Branded II? :eek: Poor Slaphappy, his nightmares are coming true. The acquisition of another company, a unionize pilot group, and a fair integration. :D |
I was certainly kidding about Branded II (though I think that would be a blast to see that operation come back). I think at the moment XJT is a good acquisition target with their cash on hand and as it stands no regional can squeak out a profitable contract with so many large competitors. The best thing for everyone is a few large regionals that provide the most efficient service but without beating each other into the ground by offering unprofitable contracts just to keep planes in the air.
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I heard it was contingent upon working out a deal with the new United. It involves SKywest purchasing xjt, a re-worked long term cpa with CAL/United, and supposedly the deal will be a mutual risk scenario. If United loses $ so will Skywest...
theres a lot of ducks to get in a row for anything to happen. I think most employees are along for the ride on this one. XJT scope is no longer an issue. Our CEO has been eerily quiet and has been trying to buy down our debt, reduce expenses, and has frozen all management hiring.... in short we are getting bought. Who is the buyer is the question. |
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 846823)
doubt it, the last vote only got 35% yes votes. Nobody here wants alpa, and skywest isn't going to waste their time with xjt again. The only way I see it happeneing is XJT going chpt 11. getting their pilot contract thrown out. I bet this will be the case, xjt is on the verge anyway. I bet they convince the right people that chpt 11 is the best way to fix xjt.
I do. So do a LOT of other pilots. I tend to agree with the idea that Skw pretty much knows that a union is coming (nmb rule change). It seems they have been acting as if it's coming, hence the fastest erosion of qol/benefits the company has seen in so short a timeframe. |
Originally Posted by cybourg10
(Post 846799)
Does SKW still have the E145 on their certificate?
It was my understanding that during the last attempt, management/training center types were put in place to spool it up but in ended up DOA. |
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 846823)
doubt it, the last vote only got 35% yes votes. Nobody here wants alpa, and skywest isn't going to waste their time with xjt again. The only way I see it happeneing is XJT going chpt 11. getting their pilot contract thrown out. I bet this will be the case, xjt is on the verge anyway. I bet they convince the right people that chpt 11 is the best way to fix xjt.
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Originally Posted by TheBills
(Post 846888)
I would say your a tad ignorant on the subject. Are you aware that union voting has changed since the last vote? Skywest will be union next time around, I bet money on it. Why do you want XJT to fail so bad? Honest question.
I personally hope xjt does well. They are a quality regional, and if they fail, some trashy regional will take over and lower the bar. |
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 846659)
only thing i've heard is skywest might be getting some mesa 900's and 700's.
Originally Posted by nigelcobalt
(Post 846801)
I would love for this to happen, but I just don't see why management would want almost (what 8,000 plus pilots?) unified and ready to take what we can from mgt's greedy hands.
As far as alpa on property, the last vote management fought awful hard against it. Not sure why they would have changed their mind now.
Originally Posted by nigelcobalt
(Post 846882)
I do. So do a LOT of other pilots. I tend to agree with the idea that Skw pretty much knows that a union is coming (nmb rule change). It seems they have been acting as if it's coming, hence the fastest erosion of qol/benefits the company has seen in so short a timeframe.
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 846823)
doubt it, the last vote only got 35% yes votes. Nobody here wants alpa, and skywest isn't going to waste their time with xjt again. The only way I see it happeneing is XJT going chpt 11. getting their pilot contract thrown out. I bet this will be the case, xjt is on the verge anyway. I bet they convince the right people that chpt 11 is the best way to fix xjt.
Slaphappy, I see you are back since the flaming you took on the "UA/CO effect on reginals" thread. But I also noticed you still havent replied to any of the responses you got from those posts. I'm particularly interested in the reply to this. Please do so, I look forward to your insight. Originally Posted by Slaphappy That and CAL has made it their mission to screw expressjet at every turn and now that CAL management is taking over UAL I don’t see that changing. Thanks in part to SKW. Originally Posted by Slaphappy I hate to sound like a broken record but the XJT mec made a big mistake not making a deal with skywest and allowing the buyout 2 years ago. You guys would be in much better shape and have a much better future. The SKW deal: Close down branded and DAL prorate agreement - was bound to happen anyways; Close down charter; Transfer the 10 a/c CPA to SKW airlines; Transfer 25 a/c to Skywest airlines for a CPA with CAL; Fourlough 700 pilots (we furloughed less than half of that); Take a 16% paycut to include PBS, getting rid of our defined contribution retirement plan, and other work rule changes equal to 4% paycut in the future after they had a chance to study our contract ("to bring us down to parity with SKW pilots"); Maintain seperate operations with seperate seniority lists without the ability to bid over with a/c in case they were transferee over to ASA or SKW (same clause SKW and ASA pilots have in the ASA contract); negotiate rates for Q400s. What they offered: 15 yr CPA for 205 a/c that was going to be up to bid in 12 months; inclusion in the SKW profit sharing and performance bonus plans; preferential (not guaranteed) interviews for furloughed pilots (to fly the same a/c and routes they are currently flying but at the bottom of a non-union seniority list at first yr SKW pay). |
Originally Posted by nigelcobalt
(Post 846890)
It will pass next time. The last vote had the worst possible timing ever. There were almost 600 pilots still on probation (1st year) that were intimidated by the company to even vote. We all remember being a newhire. You just want to stay under the radar, and pass all your training, and not cause any trouble. I personally called many of my friends who were new at the time, and even though they thought a union was a good idea, they were afraid of voting. People were saying that management had access to the votes, and crap like that, and so new hires were scared of being fired if they voted yes. Now fast forward a couple years to the present day: those same people have been on reserve for over 2 years, and they are fed up with all the bs. Huge cuts in benefits left and right. When will the bleeding stop? Not in the near future anyway. Legally, there is nothing to stop it, yet.
I personally hope xjt does well. They are a quality regional, and if they fail, some trashy regional will take over and lower the bar. |
Originally Posted by hemaybedid
(Post 846895)
I was thinking that the SkyWest pilots would be upset enough about what happened with healthcare and then to see that Inc. tried it at Atlantic Southeast and the union said, "nope, read the contract". That fact alone should have been enough to change a lot of votes at SkyWest.
Slap, I would like to know at what point would you throw in the towel? What I mean is, for you personally, when is enough, enough? Management WILL keep taking from us. Do you honestly think that they have your best interest in mind? You are a financial obligation to these people. Do you realize the most of the attrition right now is coming from junior fo's. Wonder why that is. Does mgmt care? No, they are EASILY replaceable. I guess I'm just curious as to why someone wouldn't want a legal contract in this situation. |
Originally Posted by dojetdriver
(Post 846883)
Did they EVER have it on their cert?
It was my understanding that during the last attempt, management/training center types were put in place to spool it up but in ended up DOA. |
Originally Posted by nigelcobalt
(Post 846890)
It will pass next time. The last vote had the worst possible timing ever. There were almost 600 pilots still on probation (1st year) that were intimidated by the company to even vote. We all remember being a newhire. You just want to stay under the radar, and pass all your training, and not cause any trouble. I personally called many of my friends who were new at the time, and even though they thought a union was a good idea, they were afraid of voting. People were saying that management had access to the votes, and crap like that, and so new hires were scared of being fired if they voted yes. Now fast forward a couple years to the present day: those same people have been on reserve for over 2 years, and they are fed up with all the bs. Huge cuts in benefits left and right. When will the bleeding stop? Not in the near future anyway. Legally, there is nothing to stop it, yet.
I personally hope xjt does well. They are a quality regional, and if they fail, some trashy regional will take over and lower the bar. |
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 846899)
[edit: remove flamebait] Nobody was afraid of voting for alpa. Those newhires all came from alpa airlines and didn't want to deal the corruption from that horrible organization. [edit: remove flamebait] Most of those who voted for alpa have since left skywest so I expect a vote to be even less than the ones before. We havn't lost any benefits either.
[edit: remove flamebait] like I said, when the vote was going on, I did talk to a lot of my friends that were new. That was the reason they gave. I believe it too. As far as not loosing any benefits, are you kidding me? Let me just name a couple MAJOR ones: 1) employee stock purchase program 2) health insurance Now, you could argue that we haven't lost those, because they are still available, however the extent that they benefit the employee group is SUBSTANTIALLY less that they were in their previous state. Can you really argue those two points? I'm not trying to argue with you. You can think the way you want. [edit: remove flamebait] Just trying to figure out why on earth you could think the way you do. |
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 846899)
[edit: remove flamebait] Nobody was afraid of voting for alpa. Those newhires all came from alpa airlines and didn't want to deal the corruption from that horrible organization. [edit: remove flamebait] Most of those who voted for alpa have since left skywest so I expect a vote to be even less than the ones before. We havn't lost any benefits either.
As for the XJT rumor, I'm not sure the existing facts line up with this one. Namely, why would SkyWest be thinking about hiring if they were planning to merge with another airline? Usually there is overlap, especially with a company that has guys on furlough. Ultimately, I just can't believe an airline of ExpressJet's caliber will be as destitute as some believe. Its a good operation and I have to think that if some of the awful airlines have survived, why would a good one fall by the wayside? |
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 846899)
[edit: remove flamebait] Nobody was afraid of voting for alpa. Those newhires all came from alpa airlines and didn't want to deal the corruption from that horrible organization. [edit: remove flamebait] Most of those who voted for alpa have since left skywest so I expect a vote to be even less than the ones before. We havn't lost any benefits either.
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Boys and girls... can we not insult each other? Debate the issues.
Gracias, Tony |
Originally Posted by duvie
(Post 846904)
.... Ultimately, I just can't believe an airline of ExpressJet's caliber will be as destitute as some believe. Its a good operation and I have to think that if some of the awful airlines have survived, why would a good one fall by the wayside?
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All will be revealed August 5th.
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Originally Posted by Terrain Inop
(Post 846992)
All will be revealed August 5th.
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Originally Posted by Terrain Inop
(Post 846992)
All will be revealed August 5th.
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Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 846823)
doubt it, the last vote only got 35% yes votes. Nobody here wants alpa, and skywest isn't going to waste their time with xjt again. The only way I see it happeneing is XJT going chpt 11. getting their pilot contract thrown out. I bet this will be the case, xjt is on the verge anyway. I bet they convince the right people that chpt 11 is the best way to fix xjt.
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 846899)
[edit: remove flamebait] Nobody was afraid of voting for alpa. Those newhires all came from alpa airlines and didn't want to deal the corruption from that horrible organization.
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
(Post 846899)
Most of those who voted for alpa have since left skywest so I expect a vote to be even less than the ones before. We havn't lost any benefits either.
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Originally Posted by JetJock16
(Post 847125)
Actually, under the new rules which are the same rules that EVERY other vote in the US uses (from the Presidential Election down to our SKW pay packages), ALPA would have passed with a 99% yes vote during the last election.
Does SkyWest use some sort of screwup and outdated method of counting votes like the electoral college? Does one domicile that may have less pilots have votes that can outweigh a larger domicile :D |
Originally Posted by dojetdriver
(Post 847147)
I'm sort of joking here, but also asking for a clarification on what you're saying
Does SkyWest use some sort of screwup and outdated method of counting votes like the electoral college? Does one domicile that may have less pilots have votes that can outweigh a larger domicile :D |
Originally Posted by dojetdriver
(Post 847147)
I'm sort of joking here, but also asking for a clarification on what you're saying
Does SkyWest use some sort of screwup and outdated method of counting votes like the electoral college? Does one domicile that may have less pilots have votes that can outweigh a larger domicile :D Under the former NMB laws, if applied to our internal votes, our last pay package would have been voted down by a margin very similar to that of the last ALPA vote (non-votes counted as no-votes). |
How many pilots are on furlough at XJT?
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I believe we have recalled 112 of our 347 furloughees. So 235 remain on furlough.
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Originally Posted by ImperialxRat
(Post 847205)
I believe we have recalled 112 of our 347 furloughees. So 235 remain on furlough.
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Originally Posted by Terrain Inop
(Post 847149)
Former NMB Rules stated that a union could be voted in by 51% of all eligible voters (not voting counted as a NO vote). New rules say that a union can be voted in by 51% of those who voted (not voting doesn't count).
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Originally Posted by iPilot
(Post 847207)
Considering those that have bypassed, I hear there is approximately 175 left to be called on the first round.
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Originally Posted by DashDriverYV
(Post 847208)
Does the rule work in reverse to remove a Union?
ALPA is not perfect, that's for sure. But I think the majority of pilots would rather have the backing of a union than not. Otherwise I doubt SKW would be one fo the few remaining non-union shops left. |
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