Truman_Sparks

So how does Skywest integrate Comair, a Union Carrier, into their non-union company?

sailingfun

They managed to purchase ASA just fine. I suspect they would merge Comair with ASA not the Skywest side.

Past V1

Thanks...

You hit the nail on the head...5 years from now...it is going to be very different. I say that we use this information and get a little more business savy on the whole situation. As pilots, we have been waiting for the ball to be on our side of the court and we must leverage these circumstances that management is in.

1. They have to continue to grow in order to increase their YOY (Year over Year) revenue in order to be attractive on Wall Street. The reduction of the 50 seaters are not going to be the way they (regionals) grow...they are looking to increase their capacity by bringing the 76 seaters on to the market. Now in order to do this...they have to dangle a carrot in the mainliners eyes to ease up scope. If we learn from the past...this in NOT ideal for the mainline pilot because in the end they put their jobs at stake. Also the mainline management want these 76 seat aircraft on line to increase their revenue also. We MUST use this leveraged opportunity to strengthen scope language and put a "number of TOTAL seat" capacity that outsourced flying may do.

2. Management in 3 years time (maybe less if the FAA acts quicker) they are going to run into a bottle neck situation with the recruitment of pilots due to the new rule in place. In order for new flight student to see a good return on their investment...pay must increase. It is inevitable. New contracts are coming up for renewal and we must use this information to our advantage.

3. The new Rest rules are coming into place. This will reduce the productivity of any pilot group, therefore increasing their cost overall. The only options regionals have is to increase the cost of service to their contractor (Delta, United, etc) or reduce the cost of their workforce. If we dig our heels in the ground and stay strong...because they will threaten that they will "go out of business or we will not be competitive"...the mainline will look at the new regional cost structure and see that it is not worth the trouble of contracting out flying and will start increasing flying in house.

These are a few things, but very important items. If we can stick to these strategies...this will increase flying at the mainline which will mean more jobs with better contracts for us and the continued reduction of outsourced flying. The jobs will still be there because airlines have to try to increase their capacity of the next decade as airline travel is "suppose" to pick up.

I believe that this is the best opportunity that we as a collective pilot profession have and should focus on continuing to push more jobs back to the mainline. Use the current conditions of the state of the airline industry to our advantage. Get "Business Minded Individuals" in the union...and make these strategies our goals for the next 10 years.

In the end the regionals will hurt...but that is a price that I am willing to pay for the sake of our profession. Mainline will win because of a more streamline way to operate their business and pilots will win because of a better QOL. Thoughts....

Fishfreighter

I agree with several of the posters on this thread. Without one seniority list, management can MORE easily whipsaw their pilot groups against each other.

The other comment I agree with is upgrade time at a "super" regional will dramatically increase. With the majors drawing down capacity the chances are increased radically that the left seat of an RJ will become the ultimate career destination for an increasing number of pilots.

That's just one more reason you NEED one seniority list. The 1500 hour rule and one list will help you improve your pay/work rules to the point that IF you get stuck retiring from an RJ at least you'll have something to show for it.

robthree

Upgrade time at a Super Regional will be an average of the upgrade times of each of its component parts.

Its a simple mathematical formula:
Upgrade time U = Attrition A + Growth G.
So (Uru + Uev + Uoo)/3 = Usuper-regional

The quick upgrade of a Colgan is based on their high attrition - both FO's who don't wait for upgrade and bail at first opportunity, and CA's who survive their 1000 TPIC and then move. At GoJets its based on massive (relative) growth. Double your airframes every year, and you've got a 1 year upgrade, even with zero attrition. All three carriers here are well established and unlikely to have large scale internal growth(which is why OO is buying other carriers - to show year over year growth to the stock market).

Eagle, Horizon and Comair have had long upgrades because of low attrition and low growth - both possibly because of their good contracts! (Contented pilots don't go looking for a better gigs.)

Its possible that attrition will slow at the new company, if the average quality of life is raised, and fewer pilots desire to leave. Or overall attrition might increase if the average pilot finds the new group less pleasant than the previous regime.
Likewise if attrition decreases due to lowered major hiring, it will affect a single large group in the same proportion as it would three smaller groups.

The junior CA at RU and EV are only a couple months apart, but both have a year and a half on the junior RJ CA at OO, and over two years on the junior Bro CA. So, obviously there will be some settling, but nothing dramatic.

Jake Wheeler

An interesting comment, but why go through the trouble of keeping the union pilots seperated from the non-union pilots all this time then change strategy for Eagle? If they buy Eagle and unionize, it would make sense to merge all of them into one list.

Jake Wheeler

First, when and if there is ever a pilot shortage in the US, it won't be at the majors. They'll always have pilots applying. All they have to do is lower their requirements. A regional FO with 10,000 hours is fine for flying right seat in a 737 for another 10,000 hours.

Second, the regionals will see a bottleneck, but if they want to hang on to their First Officers, they will need to raise pay. This is above the level they will need to do for the new 1500 hour rule.

TonyWilliams

It won't directly affect anybody except the bottom tier of the mainline pilot group. Whether Delta has contracted 76 seat planes, or 150 seat planes, the 25 year captain will still hop in his B777 and fly to Hong Kong. Maybe even with a pay raise, thanks to swapping out those little B737's to contract carriers. The current 737 drivers get promised bigger planes and a bit more money.

It has been proven over and over. Money talks.



No, it's not inevitable. You haven't even seen the ACTUAL rules the FAA will use for the 1500/ATP law. Just a law, so full of loopholes, that you could fly an A380 through it.

New student pilots will continue to line the streets, and has been successfully proven in Europe, PAY a handsome price to fly and A320 / B737 (they don't screw around much with little RJ's).

I do believe that there will be a shortage folks who will accept sub-McDonalds pay, but even if the price doubled, it's still poverty.



At least you can see that there are at least two possibilities here. Gee, wonder what I'd bet on ?!?!



Whatever pay raise you might get at ABC contract airlines, it will be still cheaper than the cost of flying to the contractor supplied plane / crew. You overlook the fact that the pilots at the contractor airlines probably aren't going to take further pay cuts to fly little (sub 150 seat) planes.



Ya, I see how they're hurting. They make oodles of money, and are buying / merging everything in sight. I think your desires are clouding you conclusions.

My prediction. 10 years, 125 seat contract planes. 20 years, 150 seat, with virtually the whole domestic US operated by LCC's / Start-ups / Contract Carriers.

CANAM

So long as they rid the industry of super regional pay. But this new carrier will still be a subcontracter. Meaning they'll have to compete for contracts.

eaglefly

The single most important thing regional pilots can do in the future, is to dump ALPA.

The pilots of these carriers should have a summit and form a new union strictly representing the interests of regional pilots. ALPA is worthless in this regard for them. ALPA can then be free to work their magic on behalf of mainline pilots for which they've done a commendable job over the last decade.

ALPA's grotesquely bloated compensation for themselves alone would be enough reason for regional pilots to shed this albatross, but when combining that with their pathetic performance, it's a no-brainer.