Well, the hope is that we would have soon been 20+ airplanes but plans changed. I think their goal was to be able to do flying outside of the Frontier network. Either way I agree, we should have been F9 to begin with, but what's done is done.

Were there no future plans for growth at Lynx? I might have heard a rumor at one time they were slated to grow to over 30 aircraft. I have to be honest and say I can not remember for the life of me where I had heard it though. Could have been a FA :eek:

That was the idea, but things got expensive I guess.

I agree completely.

Remember though that part of the reason Lynx was created was to get fee for departure contracts for other airlines... of course with the Ch 11 and the recession nobody signed up. If we could have had diversified the revenue stream with a long term contract our situation would be different right now.

10 orders with 10 options. Fleet plan target was 35 planes in 3 years.

Getting the Lynx certificate was a mess. However, RAH had there own disaster getting the Republic certificate up and running. They had a good portion of it approved in Louisville and then upped and moved everything to Indianapolis, where they virtually had to start over at the insistence of the Indy FSDO. This delayed the certificate by months, costing a lot of money. RAH had to put 170's on the CHQ certificate causing penalties to AMR and APA.
Of course prior to that, they were also gloating on the proposed Ascent Air, which they were trying for with the purchase of the ACA certificate. Too bad Mesa outbid them for the certificate and all assets at the last minute. That went down in flames.
Is there a theme here?

So has training of Republic pilots on the Q-400 started yet?

Lynx guys will be transitioned over to Republic and continue flying the Qs. The IBT has not said anything in regard to this. Im assuming the company is blatantly breaking the RAH contract yet again. I have no doubt an LOA could be agreed to, but the company wouldn't want to give anything in return. Yet another greivance to be filed.

We never win grievances so why would the company agree to an LOA when they can just as easily get something for nothing and anger their pilot group even more?

Wouldn't this be a pretty cut and dry violation of the contract?

Definitely not a good thing if the company actually gets away with it. The Q is a t-prop and there are no t-prop pay rates at RAH. Nothing against the Lynx guys at all on this. Currently with the SLI not completed so anyone flying those would basically be a street captain. Not to mention the company would be simply picking which work rules/pay they want or don't want. Once again nothing against the Lynx guys they get to do it but it's HUGE violation of the RAH contract. If they get away with it once they'll do it again and again. I hope it's not allowed to happen. Just keep them separate on their own certificate. I don't really see the downside to doing that but then again I'm not a company pencil pusher.

Sure it would be. They will violate the contract (once again), we will grieve it, and 2 years down the road we *might* get an arbitrator ruling in our favor. We've had many grievances that would seem to be "cut and dry" yet somehow the company keeps winning them. The ones that we DO win somehow become "non-precedent setting" and there is no punishment for the company for violating the same thing again.

Our contract is trampled time and time again and it's gotten faaaar worse over the last 1.5 yrs.

Sounds like you guys need to start taxiing slower, writing up more things, and running those APUs a little longer

Wow, way to be supportive. I see what you mean, but it's kind of hard not to take offense at it. A handful of the Lynx folks who are trained and experienced flying the Q in the mountains get to keep their jobs another six months and you guys immediately call it a contract violation.

Your contract says Republic airplanes must be flown by Republic pilots, correct?
So Republic buys Lynx, how are Lynx pilots not Republic pilots now? They may not be on the same seniority list... YET, but that's not management's fault, that's because of the arbitration process. You guys can call it a contract violation all you want but whether or not it is, is very debatable, I'm sure you guys would love to see more Lynx employees out of a job just so you can have a glimmer of expansion out of Denver and a new airplane type. Would it be ok in your eyes if they stapled the Lynx pilots to the Republic list then instituted a seat lock, then furloughed them in April?

Maybe this is why IBT is keeping their mouths shut?

We are our own worst enemy.

Remind me, when is arbitration supposed to be finished? The sooner we can ALL get back to work the better I think.

Merging the Lynx ops and planes into the Republic certificate is a clear violation (not that the Company really cares). I personally have no problem letting you guys fly your planes on the certificate provided the Company:

1. Signs the FO LOA.
2. Pay you guys what's listed in our CBA regardless if it says "turbojet".
3. Once the SLI is finished we have a flush bid for bases.

Because it is. Street captains aren't allowed. If the company gets away with it you're shooting yourself in the foot for the long run.

Ok, yeah, you're right, that would definitely be a violation. I just please ask that when you guys talk your trash, just remember YOU still have a job. Hopefully IBT will be kind enough to come up with an LOA. It will create a lot of bad blood if they have to grieve it. Which I hate to say it they should if they can't come to an agreement. A contract is a contract.

The only other way I could see it not being a violation is in the definition of operation. They could argue that since it's Lynx mechanics, Lynx dispatchers, different routes etc, than under paragraph (c) than it is a separate operation. Kind of a flimsy argument when they are moving everybody to IND, and even more flimsy if everybody from Lynx refuses to move.

The other possible loophole I see is this (the exception to Chautauqua pilots during the period of separate operations):
They could argue that it is the transition period and that it is 1) not causing a reduction in the Republic fleet and 2) that the airplane is being retired in the course of business.

Just playing devil's advocate here. Again, the sooner we are all under one list, one contract, and all back to work, the better.

How are we shooting ourselves in the foot, this is BB's doing. TD, are you asking the remaining Lynx employees to quit and give up un-employment and possibly recall so you can fly the Q for a few months? What would you do in their situation?

I say "their" because I'm already on the street. I took a voluntary furlough in April because I had received another job offer that same day.

That was written in response to your saying how it should be allowed.

Unless I read this statement wrong. My point was I understand how you want Lynx guys to fly those airplanes regardless of certificate but if BB is given the leeway to do it now there's no telling how he could exploit it down the road. Look at how long this 99 seat issue is taking and that's on a plane where you can walk down the isle and count 100 seats. Can you imagine the battle over letting people not on the RAH seniority list fly aircraft on the cert. and doing so without established pay scales? Hopefully a good stance can be taken now and not after it's already happening.

If they really wanted these aircraft JUST for this then why not leave them on their own certificate, where you guys could fly them, instead of going through all the pains associated with moving them from another certificate especially if it's only supposed to be for a short time?

#2 would an improvement, but they want our bankruptcy pay rates to continue.
#3 what are you talking about (and who have you been talking to) Willis :D

It's happening TD, Lynx is being assimilated into Republic. What is your IBT doing about it? We are a very small group with more in common with the Midwest guys in that your company seems to care less about us, but wants the routes. Though unlike the Midwest aircraft the Q400 has its place that a 170/190 cannot replace.

I'll tell you. Absolutely nothing. When the heck are they going to get off their arse AND do anything? Seriously? Come on! (not directed to you Hawker, but the RAH IBT)

All the Midwest and Lynx guys have been coming on as new hires until the SLI is done. They should be able to hold different bases (and positions) after the final list comes out. But, since the company hates letting people go where they want (there are people jr to me in Denver, and I can't get there) we will have to force them to do the right thing. A flush bid will get everyone to where their seniority truly holds.

So in theory I'll have to commute out of DEN so you can commute in. We'll cross that bridge in time after the SLI but as of now no thanks. It will be interesting to see how many RAH pilots want the lowly Q400 to get Denver. Actually our pay will keep all but the insane away from the Q. :D

I don't believe anything has been made official yet so I don't know what can or is being done. However your second statement is false. The company discriminates against us all evenly.

Two Republic Indocs scheduled. Lynx guys going to RW to fly the Q.

One on Oct 4th

One on Oct 18th

I don't think anyone cares about the airframe, just the pay. I'll ride a tandem bicycle if the pay is right. None of our airframes are impressive anyway...

OK so a tandem in Denver, WB said he wanted Denver, thats the point.

The point is, that is how seniority works. The more seniority you have the better quality of life you are able to make. Better pay, schedules, duty positions, ect.

If you end up having a seniority number high enough to hold Denver, great. If I do, great. What I don't want to see is the Company just putting what people they want, where they want them, just for their own convenience.

For instance, what is to stop the company from opening a Q400 OMA base and moving all you guys out there? That would suck if you get forced out there and a new hire ends up with DEN, doesn't it? Crap like that happens all the time and we need to stop it.

It's YOUR company too.

I'm all for the Lynx pilots to continue to fly their airplanes but here's the problem. If we allow this contract violation, it WILL come back to haunt us at some point, maybe years down the road. It sets a precedent that we don't want to have to argue about to some arbitrator down the road should BB decide to have RAH a/c flown by non-RAH pilots.

You guys should continue to fly your airplanes but we need to do it in the form of an LOA that directly addresses this unique situation and makes it known (legally) that this is a one-time deal that sets no precedent.

It sucks that this is even an issue. Why BB wants to fly those airplanes on the RW certificate is beyond me. Probably for the sole reason of causing this type of conflict amongst all of us...and also as another way to show us that our contract means shiite to him.

I'd go to DEN to fly the Q b/c 1) it's a TP and 2) it's a cool TP! Oh, and 3) so I can get my 121 TPIC and get the F out of here as quickly as possible.

I know, I'm just in denial. But When BB came to town last year he said that he wanted Frontier and we just came along with the deal. We are the bastard stepchild no one wants.

Don't we all.