New Fatigue Rules Soon
 

Came across this article this morning. Promises, Promises

The Associated Press: PROMISES, PROMISES: FAA fatigue rules finally near

We don't appear to be any closer to a resolution this yet, do we.

im surprised the rules havent been leaked--- they've been finalized and im pretty sure the airlines know what the new rules are-- as prob does alpa national.
we can expect exactly what the article says.
prob a 6 leg limit at the regionals
up to 10 hours of flying to allow transcon round trips during normal circadian rythm hours.
and less during red eye hours

i havent a clue whats going to happen with commuters- if anything.

Flight and duty time nprm
 

FAA will announce new flight and duty regs tomorrow, followed by comment period.

That maybe good news, I won't hold my breath. Where did you find this info?

Fox news and the govt affairs chairman of our union spoke with FAA, will ba announced around 1 pm eastern. No idea what's in it

Something about 11hrs flight time per day

Regulators to announce new pilot fatigue and duty rule | AIRLINE BIZ Blog | dallasnews.com

I'm fatigued from all this waiting(pause).........can't.......stay........awa ke.......to.....watch.

now CAL can make all their ewr to euro flights with just 2 pilots not just the one's blocked under 8 hours like now.

Exactly. UAL can do the same with many IAD flights. When ALPA suggested the 9 hour flight time/day I knew it had turned into a regional union.

Only if the JCBA allows that.

I would suggest you actually go back and read what ALPA suggested. Yes there was a 9 hour max however only if scheduled in your body cycle. Non of the current flights to Europe fit that. In fact with the normal departure and arrival times in Europe the ALPA proposal restricts the flight time to 7 hours before a relief pilot has to be onboard. It will increase not decrease jobs and augmented flights.

Heyas,

9 hours block
14 hour hard limit on duty
10-12 hours minimum rest behind the door depending on scheduled flight time
no reduced rest
pilots must be in base 10 hours prior to report

both management and pilots will oppose it, so it will be dead in the water and the FAA will say "told you so, don't tell us how to do our job"

Nu

PS Just kidding

If those indeed are some of the new rules, I think they are a fair and a reasonable improvement. The only concern I see right off hand is, what constitutes "in base" for commuters. How many miles away? I hope that is not left to a companys' interpretation or we will all be sitting ready/hot reserve. Also, I hope AM to PM and vice versa schedules are addressed. Flipping your bodys clock around in a 24 hour period is fatiguing no matter how much time you have on the ground ie; 8 vs. 10-12. IMHO

I was hoping for 4 legs max and 12 hours of duty! I would also expect 12 hours min crew rest, this was a huge issue in the military and they did tons of studies on it and it was like A number one issue, we now have 12 hour mins per day, but again we can be on duty 24 hours in one day and fly 150 hrs a month! Max of 3 twenty four hour days in a row with min 12 hr crew rest, then you SHOULD get 36 hrs off.

Why not a max of 10 hours duty and minimum of 10 hours rest like the Europeans do?

Expect to have fewer days off and more days on the road...Be careful what you wish for....

EXACTLY! I certainly hope this doesn't hurt our QOL like I believe it may.

It will...and pilots will still be tired...We are our own worst enemy...

I don't think many people realize that although laws may change, contracts won't. We will still be paid the same, we just end up with fewer hours of pay and fewer days off. Basically, its exactly what all of us bid against.

That is why the contracts need to change. I think more emphasis needs to be placed on being paid a livable wage as an FO, off of nothing more than monthly guarantee. What that value should be, I don't know, but it definately shouldn't be south of $20k a year as is the case at some carriers. If the airlines can't pay that, or won't pay that, then they shouldn't be in business anyways.

Not all the contracts come due at the same time. If they did, it'd be no problem, but there's no way to drive wages up fast enough to make up for fewer hours and fewer days off.

I'd be happy if we could just get a hard 8 hours behind the hotel door. That would be huge.

yeah hotel rest behind door and duty day hard limit are huge...the commuting thing will be a huge issue too...maybe it will lead to more home basing? (long wishful shot)...more hiring too.

The question is who determines if its scheduled in your body cycle? If the the company argues you knew about the trip a month in advance and then its up to you to get you body cycle in line with the trip schedule.

That's what she said.

-mini

More like the company requiring you to live in base.

I'm sure they've already thought about that. Let's see how they address it.

Get it in your contract. We have nine hours behind the door in ours.

Not going to happen. There may or may not be some downright draconian regs that hammer commuters, but they can never force you to "live" anywhere. Ever. It can't even be defined. What about a "local" New Yorker or LA'er that has a 2-3 hour by car sitting in traffic commute? Is that "living in base"? What about pilots with multipile residences? Will they require you to vote and pay taxes in your "domicile" versus somewhere else? LOL! What if you live out of base but have a relative close to the airport at your base where you can stay?

Again I can see some sort of tracking for non revving by air before the start of your trip and maybe some sort of "time off after that" requirement to be considered rest or whatever. Maybe. But they can not "force" you to live anywhere. There is no legal basis for it and more importantly it is impossible to define.

Well yeah...except that my body cycle has to be in sync with my current schedule as well.

LOL, That strong. ! lol :)

God that would be nice , what airline ???

From the Bloomberg article below

-Min 9 hr overnight
-30 consecutive work free hours each week
-10hrs flight time per day max
-13hr duty time per day max

U.S. Airline Pilots Said to Get More Rest Under FAA Overhaul - Bloomberg

That's not the company's problem. They don't care what you do on your free time as long as it doesn't interfere with your work schedule. They believe work first, your life second.

From Bloomberg online this morning (Fri 9/10)
 

Some "major aviation announcement" from the FAA at 1pm today.

U.S. Airline Pilots Said to Get More Rest Under FAA Overhaul - Bloomberg

Minimum 9 hours rest
Minimum 30 consecutive hours off each 7 days
Maximum 10 hours flying w/ max duty reduced to 13 hours

Be interesting to see if the max flying and duty time limits vary based on length of day, start time, etc. as had been rumored.

With more rest and shorter duty required to go with higher hours permitted in a duty period, this will probably end up being a wash as far as staffing goes.

Its determined by local time at your base. Nothing open for the company to try and manipulate.

You're missing his point. The company dictates my current schedule, as well. It's not like I have a month between trips.

Further, I've seen many rotations with 0610 showtimes that include an all-nighter on day three or four. There's just no way to get your rythm synced up for that.

Pathetic

If this was a negotiation ( union vs mgmnt)
This is a complete railroad job.
Will give u what u already have and then take even more

If that's true I wonder how much the 13 hour max duty day is "extendable".