Delta Connection equal pass bennies & more
 

There has been talk with the Delta Connection Pilot Alliance to equalize all conx carriers with equal pas bennies, I'm curious to see if this will ever truly happen. I'm unable to comprehend why front line employees who fly for connection carriers and represent the Delta brand are not given somewhat comparable benefits to mainline in the pass travel department. I know that the same benefits mainline employees recieve are not fully capable of being recieved at conx carriers because we are not flying mainline aircraft, but nonetheless.

I'm also interested in seeing interest on adding a code at the end of our standby priority for those that commute to recieve a higher priority than those using their passes purely for vacation or joyriding. It's a debateable argument, curious as to everyone's thoughts.

Good luck with that Derek.

The exact benefits are negotiated between DL and the individual DCI carrier's management. There is minimal input and probably zero participation from DCI employees so you have to look at who at the negotiating table has something to gain...

DL management doesn't have much to gain or lose.

- Increased nonrev fees help the bottom line but only a tiny bit. They will probably be inclined to raise fees if the DCI companies don't complain much (the companies, not the employees)

- Increased priority for mainline employees might generate a little bit of goodwill, but that will soon be forgotten by labor anyway. It's more likely that they would hold out increased priority as negotiating capital with mainline labor.

Regional (DCI) managers might have something to gain...

- If they can negotiate slightly more favorable feed contract terms in exchange for throwing their employees under the priority bus they will do that willingly and eagerly. Also most will not expend any effort at all to improve employee benefits even if it doesn't cost them any money.

- Certain DCI's may be limited by labor contract terms although unless you are wholly-owned that's a stretch since mainline is not bound by regional labor contracts.

- Some regionals (ie SKW) will stand up for their employees because they rely on a certain amount of labor goodwill. Since it doesn't cost them much or anything to stand up to DL, they will do that.

The problem here is that this a benefit for some (commuters) which comes at the expense of others (non-commuters). There might be a slight benefit for non-commuters in that they could more easily return to work from vacation or weekend travel excursions. The folks who would bear the brunt of this would be non-crew employees who would get bumped while trying to take their once-a-year family vacation.

Since it would benefit mostly crew, it would probably have to be done at the negotiating table at significant cost. The non-commuters would probably not give up pay for a deal like this.

Also it wouldn't help as much as you might think...if the flight is sold out you are in the jumpseat anyway. This really only helps on the rare occasion when there a seats available for nonrevs, there are a lot of nonrevs, and the JS(s) is already occupied.

The JS, not nonrev priority, is what makes commuting feasible for most of us.

Mainline has something to gain--I currently do NOTHING--absolutely NOTHING to help out any non-pilot mainline employee...there is a lot you can do on a CRJ-200 to make or break those extra 3-4 nonrevs...if there are mainline/retirees sitting around the gate area, I will never do anything like upping taxi fuel, lowering cruise alt, or requesting ballast--ever...never...

On the other hand, when we had NWA pass benefits, with buddy passes (in our contract, btw), I frigging did whatever I had to to help out...

When we have a DAL mainline pilot, I do whatever I can to get that person on...but as for retirees/families of pilots/buddies of pilots, etc.--I care ZERO whether they get on my DCI plane or not--my family and buddies can't ride, so why would I care if their families and buddies get on my aircraft???

And btw--9E MANAGEMENT does have buddy passes--numerous reports and printouts of travelnet screens showing "9E and BUDDY"--usually when asked, the person ends up being a management buddy (even frontline managers--like Mx station managers, etc.)....

In short--the frontline employees don't get squat--but the managers and higher ups do...eyes rolling--this is America folks--the America our gutted unions and "free market capitalist" decade has left us to deal with...

Mainline has nothing to gain...they don't care about their own employees either.

In a separate thread, I posted what would be nice to see happen for DCI employees and use of their non-rev benefits:

Example and wishful thinking:
SA1: Company Business; Emergency travel
SA2: Still remain - everyone receives 6/year
SA3: Ordinary travel for all ACTIVE, to include DCI, regardless of affiliation. DoH for everyone.
S3B: Retirees and Parents
SA4: Companion Pass Riders
SA5: OAL / others
or

SA3: Ordinary travel for all ACTIVE mainline
S3B: Active DCI, regardless of affiliation.
S3C: Retirees and Parents.

and
Unlimited t/o travel (ie: Regional Elite Employees)

Comair had parity with Delta on all Delta and Comair flights until last year. When Delta inherited Mesaba and Compass, Delta decided that they couldn't keep everyone at the same level. You know, too many regional guys trying to get to work in too many Delta hubs.

So Comair flight bennies were reduced to that of Compass and Mesaba (who, as I recall, got improvements from their NW days). We lost our 6 S2 passes, lost all priority on Delta, and only keep DOH on our own metal.

Now that Compass and Mesaba are sold, and Comair has been reduced from 6500 to 2500 employees, you'd think Delta would be able to return us to our 2008 pass benefits.

You can take one guess how that's going...

DCI carriers will never get the pass benefits of mainline and their wholly owned carriers. Many DCI contractors also feed for other airlines aside from Delta, eg. Skywest. That would flood Delta mainline with tens of thousands of newly added peoplw who would become elligible for mainline pass privledges. It's a waste of time even considering this adgenda as Delta would never sign off on it. There is nothing in it for Delta, in fact, it would cost them money in the end.

Doesn't Skywest get the same benefits (just at a lower priority)? All the contract Regional Elite employees also get the same benefits I believe (again at a lower priority). Only getting one International trip a year is a huge slap in the face to the pilots and FAs of carriers that work so hard to give Delta customers a good experience (and by all the surveys a lot of the carriers are providing a consistently better experience than mainline).

I don't think this agenda is a waste of time, I have heard that there have been talks and that there exists a possibility for changes this upcoming year.

- Some regionals (ie SKW) will stand up for their employees because they rely on a certain amount of labor goodwill. Since it doesn't cost them much or anything to stand up to DL, they will do that.


Really?! Standup for us?! What have you been smoking. If they wanted a little goodwill they'd have kept the health insurance options instead of forcing the HSA on everyone. SkyWest will do what SkyWest wants regardless of what goodwill may be lost by labor. They don't care anymore.

REAS employees only get their SA2s on comair and mesaba.

Not sure what this is supposed to mean. Delta cut Comair's flight bennies and Comair's president says he argued to keep them but no avail.

What exactly did Comair ALPA do that has you so hot and bothered?

I agree 100%. International travel has zero negative impact on Delta, so to restrict it makes no sense. As Mesaba/Compass were sold, we lose all of our "hard earned" pass benefits. I am in no way asking for the same travel benefits as mainline. What I am asking, is to have the same benefits as ASA/Skywest. I would much rather pay $100 for employee benefits and $50 for each person thereafter (max of $200), than to see our benefits cut at the same $50 rate we have been paying.

I asked a Reginal Elite Airline Services (REAS) friend of mine and he said his international travel is unlimited. He goes to Japan quite a bit several times a year. He was a former Comair (OH) employee when the transition took place so I'm not sure if he was grandfathered in or not. He also gets 6 S2's, which are only valid on DCI carriers only. If he were to use one on 9E for example, he'd get priority over ALL other 9E employees, as 9E gets "0" S2's. That's messed up.

Otherwise, REAS always boards as S3C on DCI (unless they use their S2) regardless of aircraft operator (IE: Pinnacle, Mesaba, Skywest, etc). At least the employees of their respective airlines have S3 status on their own aircraft.
However, I don't know why on ASA aircraft mainline employees board as S3"C" and S3CR (retired) and all other DCI aircraft (to my knowledge) they board by DOH as S3...again, different policies for different DCI carriers.
There is a lot of inconsistency between DCI.
Boarding behind retirees is what really needs to be changed. :(

Commuting is a lifestyle choice. I can completely understand having priority for a jumpseat for having to get/to from work over a vacation, but infringing on a benefit enjoyed by every other airline employee in the business is wrong.

Let me expand on this just a bit.

Working for a regional airline is a lifestyle choice. Unless you don't mind moving (along with your family, and forcing them to find new jobs) on the whim of management, you are going to commute if you work for a regional airline.

There's some truth to that. Since Regionals are "contractors" we're at the whim of the mainline (Delta in particular) who like to move everyone around to make sure you don't "own" any hub. You find your airline doing mostly MEM flying one month, DTW the next and DCA the month after. Not to mention when your Regional starts flying for new partners and adds their hubs. Bases tend to open and close more often at the regionals where the mainline carriers tend to keep the same hubs for years. So there probably ARE more commuters at the regionals, who commute by necessity instead of choice.

I am tired of parents and retirees getting on before me. I work for the company, but people who don't work the company get on before I do? This is not right. The other day, this 85 year old mother got on the plane before I did while going to work, when her daughter was with the company only two years. We both got on, so it is a moot point now, but it what if one more passenger showed up? If DL employees want to be S3 on their own aircraft that is great! DCI active employees should at least be S3B while parents/retirees go S3C.

I do realize that each regional negotiates it's own pass benefits, but DL should at least have a standard system that they "sign up" for. I was riding on Compass today and they were telling me that Compass could have full benefits like SKW/ASA/Comair but since they were bought by Trans States, their new owner refuses to right the check to DL for those benefits. Really stinks for a friend I know that has to travel to Japan almost monthly for his family. He's pretty upset I hear.

Boarding behind parents and retirees..I never understood why an active employee trying to commute gets bumped by parents and retirees going on a cruise. How and why do Skywest/ASA and Comair get "full benefits"? Why isn't is consistent across the DCI groups? The former 2 are not even wholly-owned. And how much more would it cost to get what the others had pre-merger NWA? I think most would rather pay the $200 maximum per family per year for full benefits.

Pinnacle, and on Jan. 1st, Compass and Mesaba lose all buddy passes. Parents have to travel on High ZED fair, and everyone only get 3 transoceanic travel days per year. Thats 3 one-ways across the ponds. Those are the details as I understood it. But as someone that likes to travel across the pond a lot, this would totally suck. Not sure why they can't pay $200 to get the better deals. I sure would.

I can tell you this... the minute Corp gets around to rewriting manuals, if what you guys have in your FOM isn't in our JCBA, the commuting policy will go the way of your pass benefits... regardless of a later SLI...

Just a heads up

At ExpressJet we fly at the SAME priority as the CAL employees. Our planes or their planes its the same priority. Flying the same people so why should be nonrev at different priority.

Normal travel is $12.50 one way domestic ($15 if you make a connection). International fees vary by destination. No Annual fee. All normal fee based nonrev passes are unlimited.

Just like them we also get up to 16 "vacation passes" each year depending on dependents. These are one way passes so up to 8 round trips where you get a "super priority" and also fee waived travel regardless of cabin class. Seats open in first from EWR to NRT well if you are using a vacation pass you just got yourself 16 hours in first for free up to 8 round trips this year. Vacation passes are good for 5 years so if you dont use all 16 they roll over. You dont have to use them just for vacation, its just what they are called. You can use them for commuting if you like. For me I will never use one for commuting because they are just to valuable for free international travel.

Here is an example of what a nonrev list might look like. Remember we all travel at the same priority so date of hire is all that matters. CAL or XTT employee doesnt matter.

Hire date Discription
2000 employee on Vacation pass
2001 employee on Vacation pass
2000 dependent traveling alone on Vacation pass
1986 employee on normal pass
1999 employee on normal pass
1965 dependent traveling alone on a normal pass

(dependents travel at the same priority as their respective employee if they are accompanied by said employee)

Jumpseat is different depending on if the flight is ours or theirs. They are OAL on us and we are OAL on them.

Our United pass travel is absolutely horrible as far as priority and cost with no vacation pass at all. It is anyones guess as to what might happen after our merger and the UAL/CAL merger. Our travel bennies are not contractual, although they should be, but we were just lucky and kept what we had from the ole COEX days.

In my opinion, regional airlines shouldnt exist to begin with but at the very least we should get the exact same travel benefits as the mainline employees and nothing less. We fly the same customers. Dont settle for less if you actually get a chance to negotiate for this.

They rely on goodwill to keep unions out. I think that has become a lower priority, but they would still like to hold the line. Healthcare of course is major goodwill (or badwill) issue, but it costs money.

It doesn't cost SKW money to stand up to DL when DL comes looking to bump us on our own airplanes. SKW is not negotiating new contracts with DL right now so it's not a big deal.

DL might be able to get FREE employee goodwill by giving them higher priority on DCI/SKW...so they will ask.

SKW can get FREE employee goodwill (or at least avoid more badwill) by telling DL to pound sand. Doesn't cost anything to say "No".

The NWA call-in-honest policy was removed with the merger with Delta. What makes you think a regionals' call-in-honest policy is going to stick?

No, actually the Delta call in honest policy was chosen over the NWA one.The NWA policy was a better one though.

The "little" 200 actually cruises faster in RVSM than the 7 and 9.

I've deleted most of the mud slinging in this thread, I hope.

You mean it "could" cruise faster. I've never had a -200 above .78 in level flight. And anything above ISA+0 it's .74 or less. The -700 will do .82 (limited to .83 in RVSM) and the -900 will do .85 (limited to .82 in RVSM) in level flight at any ISA.

Not bragging, just making sure the facts are straight.

You're not getting slowed because we're randomly deciding to slow down. I haven't had a day in a while that MEM center hasn't slowed me down while I was still on the arrival. Flow control into MEM used to be unheard of, now we're seeing it pretty often on short hops from FSM, XNA and some of the other shorter leg length stations. Oh, and I'll be a bit more concerned about flying faster to get there on-time when the company is concerned about getting us a decent contract. Until then, as long as the passengers are gonna make their connections (which how the banks are constructed in MEM, you can be pretty late and still see people make their connections), I really couldn't care less about what time we're gonna get to the gate.

Now, on the pass benefits, I'm still wanting "fly confirmed for less" back. Loved that with NWA, and as soon as Delta handed down the "DCI contract carrier" package, that was one of the first things gone. I LIKED being able to buy a severely discounted POSITIVE SPACE ticket for my wife and kid to go on vacation. FedEx works great for me, but I can't take my family with me. With the loads how they have been for about the past year, it's touch and go if I'd be able to take them with me on space available travel anyway, especially with the newly hired ramper from Delta taking his mom bumping us off....

LOL. Good joke my friend.

It's obvious that the larger, newer planes are more capable. Nobody disputes that. But the facts are that a -200 can/could go to M.84/.85.

What could there possibly be to "brag" about?

When I was at Skywest I thought my flight benefits were great. I had pass privileges on both United and Delta. The increased flight options more than made up for lower non-rev priority. The travel department was more active in getting discounts for employees. I didn't expect to bump a mainline employee....ever. Regional employees are just contract employees for a major. Any at-risk self branded flying should allow the regional employees to have a higher priority on their own metal though.

Aren't regional people flying on their own flights at a higher priority currently than mainline people regardless of flying directly as a contract carrier for mainline? On a side note, I don't think anyone on here was asking for a higher priority for the regionals. Just equal benefits for all regional carriers.

I'm asking for higher priority. When the people get on my plane they are getting on Continental flight xxxx. Why is that I shouldnt have equal nonrev benefits? And for that matter pay, contract, and seniority at said airline. The second you agree that you shouldnt have the same board priority as a mainline employee is the second you agree that you are not as important as them. When you get left behind because the mainline ramper that just got hired last week beat you on you are saying that he is more important than you. I would say that you or I have much more invested in that mainline carrier than said ramper. WAKE UP!

You are flying Continental passengers, but who signs your paycheck. That is the crux of the problem, that this ramper is employed by Continental Airlines, and you work for ExpressJet Airlines.

As for the pay, contract and seniority at said airline, I just don't see that happening. Unless of course the mainline carrier starts taking back scope from the top down, which would open up jobs at said carrier. When you filled out your application it did say ExpressJet, and not Continental, right?

Why did you not just apply to CAL in the first place?

Dream on. Wont ever happen. You sure seem awfully entitled. Check your arrogance and entitlements at the home next time and deal witht the fact that mainline employees will always get on ahead of you. Thats the way it's always been, always will be and always should be. If you don't like it than buy a ticket or drive :eek:

Your not any more important than that ramper.

Plus you have access to the cockpit jumpseat, something almost all other employees don't

Maybe he couldn't afford to let his kids go without health insurance for the first 6 months.

I think everyone who flies passengers for a brand should have equal pass benefits on that brand, based on date of hire.