Thanks man, very generous of you.

I didn't mean it as a jab or a mine is better then yours, but from hell you guys have had to deal with you deserve far better. This is a step in the right direction but it should be better then it is. They're hoping that you jump at the first one so they don't have give you more...they can afford more.

I'm not an acey but I'll definitely be fighting for a superior contract then we have now. Also the ASA contract isn't superior to the expressjet contract in many ways. There should be no reason that nearly every aspect of the new contract isn't better than each of the two existing contracts.

Good luck

Why aren't the 900's significantly more senior? Bad scheds?

Ok, I see what you were saying now.

But to say this TA is a joke is far off the mark.

Considering how far this TA had to bring up the guys at Colgan and fixing the harsh conditions 9E has been working under, this is a huge step in the right direction.

Im not saying it's perfect, we all have a long way to go, but it's a very solid contract considering the huge hurdle of combining these 3 groups.

The entire strategy of this joint TA was to take the best of what the 3 airlines offered as a merger contract.

It is definetely one of the better contracts in the regionals if ratified.


Alright BoilerUP, you have an expressjet contract up your sleeve?

I do not have XJT's current, concessionary agreement; perhaps some XJT pilot here could share it since knowledge is power and all that.

I do have the "original" XJT 2004 CBA: XJT 2004.pdf

And I also have the document from the extension of this contract in 2006 (before concessions): XJT Contract Extention LOA.doc

The issue was basing and what planes had vacancys at the time. You get guys in the the SAAB (hating it) and wanting to get a jet. On top of that they did not want to move or commute.

When most of the really senior guy's moved to the 200, DTW and MEM were the only 900 slots open. Then you add the 2 year seat lock...

It certainly isn't scheduling

-900 CA right now is VERY senior (as in seniority numbers 100 or less as of the last vacancy). When we first got them a payrate was still being arbitrated so a good number of folks went to the -900 for an easier commute or just to fly the new jet. Once rates came out pilots went there for more money. Now that there is some movement again the first few slots that have opened for -900 CA have been senior. For -900 FO it's not ridiculously senior but don't even think about holding it as a new hire.

Very true about 900 FOs, some have been waiting over 2.5 years to get ATL and avoid the commute... Still waiting...

The CRJ-900 junior captain is about to move to May 05 thanks to this just posted Saab Realignment. And it will continue to get MUCH more senior as the Saabs are pulled from the old NWA bases thanks to the loss of the flow through to Delta.
What the junior LGA SF340 captain hire date will be? Who knows but I'm guessing it will be pretty junior.

It'll go more senior than that depending on where the opening's are. I want MSP 900

Hoping someone can answer these two questions.

1. I hadn't noticed the seat lock when I read through the summary, but read Higney's explanation in the other thread. Is that for all airplanes and positions??? Meaning someone can't upgrade to better paying equipment for 1 year? Should they be at all concerned about staffing the left seat of the Saab?

2. I asked this one on Airlink Pilots but haven't gotten a response. Our hire dates at Pinnacle are being adjusted for SLI. Is our new hire date going to determine our yearly raise also, or will that still be the old date???

Sure it will, darn near every Saab Captain is now trying to get off it and over to the jet asap. When all the Saabs are gone from the traditional bases I'm betting it will be 10 + years to hold 900 CA.

Call your rep, email [email protected], or wait for the roadshow. You have several options to get reliable information, this isn't really one of them.

1. When the language is officially released it will be 24.4.C. I don't even have all the sections yet and I will not pass out sections prior. What I have posted is in the TA and not clearly explained in the summary, so I put it out to try and quell some of the "theories" that folks are coming up with in their minds.

2. Yes, everything will be based on your initial class date (which is different from your hire date for only 9E pilots). This will not be in effect until the Sli. The class date is used for integration, once we are all on the same "1 List" all factors will be based on class date as if it were DOH. Your checkride date will only be a date that you remember as a thing of the past. That means pay, vacation, travel benefits, etc. will be based off class date. This will not change over (to my knowledge) until we are 1 list.

If you folks have individual questions or would like "sourced" answers reps and P2P guys have many more details than the line guys. It's not to hold anything back, but the JNC/MEC and Volunteers are working with diligence to ensure everything is done right the first time with this JCBA. We don't want a repeat of the TA1 debacle so bear with the JNC and MEC's as everything is being done the "right" way instead of a rush job. An error in language now just to get it to the pilots 2 weeks earlier can result in 5 years or more of having to live under the error.

actually looking at my payscale for this TA, I will be making MORE than the Chuck Yeagers of the regional world. Guess that makes me Neil Armstrong?

True, the DOS captain rates in this TA are a touch better most years than ASA's 11/20/10 rates from CBA 2007 on the CR2 and CR7/9...one would hope that'd be the case in a late 2010 contract vs. a 2007 contract. That said, the FO rates lag ASA, to say nothing of the ATR-72 scale @ ASA for both seats being identical to the 50 seat jet.

Again, why not tie FO rates to 60% of CA rates in this TA?

I have the up to date contract with all the LOAs and MOUs written into the body of the contract. I just don't know how to upload it here.

Yeah, I did get a chance to glance at that payrate scale.

I like the FO scales better than ours, the captains are lagging behind this TA. I haven't had a chance to see if the trip and duty rigs make that much a difference for our flying.

The ATR rates are stellar, wonder if they knew that aircraft was out the door, lol

You can create a free Mediafire account and upload it there...that's what I've done.

Not really interested in doing that. I tried to PM it to you but I can't attach it there either.

Straight payrates can be very misleading. A friend of mine passed on a compensation comparison including 401k, scheduling, vacation, sick time accrual, soft time etc. It was very dramatic the difference in total compensation.

One thing they all had in common is that we are suckers and being compensated far too little for our time.

You'll always be a Hoover to me mooney, lol

you're preaching to the choir, bro. Washout ;)
There's a few haters that don't understand that though

Just out of curiosity, did you guys at Mesaba really think the flow was going to stick around once the merger with Delta was complete?

Personally nope, and I also didn't figure Delta would keep the Saabs around long term either. All the more why I thought the merger would be bad for us.

The flow thru is still alive. Delta could have killed it on the spot but they didn't, they chose to extend the offer. XJ pilots will continue to flow up for a couple more years.

Agreed. Not a peeing contest, but doing a side by side comparison the ASA CBA only has 2 or 3 small items that surpass the XJT CBA.

Check your email, the revised CBA that has the corrected LOA/MOU language as well as a file with the concessionary rates is being sent to you.

Thanks to dojet...XJT's current CBA:

Contract 2004 MOU19.pdf

LOA 9 payrates.pdf

lol. Now we know you're full of it, Mr. "Delta" pilot.... yeah right.

The flow through, unfortunately, doesn't extend to all the pilots on the Mesaba Pilot's seniority list, thanks to some nice moves by the Delta MEC... like voting to split them off.

From my understanding DL cut off the flow but allowed all those who had already met the minimums and submitted for flow prior to 7/1/10 (purchase date) to flow. That was around 108 pilots. So those who truly wanted DL prior to the merger got it, those who went "reactionary" on the news missed.

I met a CA who was part of the flow, then not...

seemed like he got really shafted - he told me that in 05 he interviewed at NWA and right around then is when they started getting flow so the interview board said "we'll put your stuff to the side, we don't want to mess with the seniority and get you here out of order".... now of course, he's not part of the flow, and not a Delta pilot.

Not quite. They chose to allow those that "had a reasonable expectation" to be grandfathered. That is the exact wording used. They decided that would consist of those that could go within the next year (sort of) 9 per month X 12 months = 108 pilots. They put a hook on it though because instead of it being the next 108 that chose to go they looked 108 names down the list and said these are the ones grandfathered wheather all 108 take it or only 50 do, that is it. We will not be flowing all 108. There ARE a lot of us that wanted to go but are left out in the cold. In fact the further you went down the seniority list the more yes bids there were. Better than nothing, I suppose but still a slap in the face to a lot of us. Really doesn't motivate us to go out of the way for our, er I mean DELTA'S passengers.

We did have a few people turn down the flow to NWA that after the merger were arguing to start the flow over from the top for Delta. They didn't get the choice to go to Delta as the flow was a one and done deal. Once someone junior flowed you were locked out. If nobody junior had gone you could still change your bid one way or the other. That did not change with the merger. And the cutoff point at the merger was about 125 on the list at that time.

There are still nearly 80 Mesaba pilots who are eligible to flow up to Delta. At 9 pilots per class, that means the next 9 Delta new hire classes will contain Mesaba flow up pilots. Again, the flow is alive for a couple more years.

Mr. "Delta pilot :D

If you have the up to date document, it should have the concessionary rates already incorporated into it.

"Mr Delta Pilot" was sarcasm because that is what the guy called me. Sorry you were to dull to pick up on that. :rolleyes:

Someone was blowing smoke up your butt if they said they interviewed in 05.

I'm guessing he remembered incorrectly and the guy actually told him '07 or '08 because that IS actually what NWA HR was telling people that were applying to the airlines with flow. "You have to wait for your flow spot." Or, if someone was in class at say Compass or Mesaba, and later called for a NWA interview, too late -- they are at Compass/Mesaba and cannot even interview at NWA.

You're a bit off here on the flow thing.

He had more of a chance than the guys at Pinnacle. Why? NW wouldnt hire anyone from Pinnacle either despite them not having a flow.

It had nothing to do with the flow, it had to do with being a NW feeder.