View down KLEX Rwy 26
08-28-2006 | 04:39 AM
#11
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,080
Likes: 0
From: Executive Transport Driver
The more experience we get, the more we ASSUME we are doing things right. We have all made those flying 101 mistakes and been fortunate to survive them or gracefully recover from them. It's 6AM, I'm tired, the hotel coffee just sucks, I've flown this trip a zillion times, I just know this is the right runway, ATL is just 45 minutes down the road and I can grab a breakfast bagel, lets get out of here.....
Armchair quarterbacks will rant that a simple heading check (Remember the mega gay Heading OK call?) would have alerted them to the error. Truth of the matter is we are all one simple mistake away from screwing the pooch big time.
The plane I teach now has a class 3 EFB built in, but you still have to call the taxi chart up on the screen to see the little green airplane on the right taxiway or runway. How many of us would have failed to do the 3 or 4 steps required to make this happen if we were in our happy place/comfort zone?
The best way to honor the dead is by re-taking our vows to sit up and pay attention, even when we are tired, even when it is a sunny day at home base.....
Armchair quarterbacks will rant that a simple heading check (Remember the mega gay Heading OK call?) would have alerted them to the error. Truth of the matter is we are all one simple mistake away from screwing the pooch big time.
The plane I teach now has a class 3 EFB built in, but you still have to call the taxi chart up on the screen to see the little green airplane on the right taxiway or runway. How many of us would have failed to do the 3 or 4 steps required to make this happen if we were in our happy place/comfort zone?
The best way to honor the dead is by re-taking our vows to sit up and pay attention, even when we are tired, even when it is a sunny day at home base.....
08-28-2006 | 04:41 AM
#12
Big Poppa
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 613
Likes: 0
Yeah, I was just about to say that. Don't they have info on which runway is what length, and isn't that something that is checked, especially when at an airport like this? I can imagine this wouldn't be an issue if you were at ATL because all of the runways are long enough, but when you know that one is too short, I would think that doublechecking the runway would be a huge pre-take-off check. But like you said, I'm not going to jump to any conclusions until the NTSB comes out with the report, maybe there was some freak occurance that we don't know about yet. God bless them all
08-28-2006 | 04:51 AM
#13
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
Likes: 0
From: A-320A
This is an accident. That means that someone or a few people made a mistake. We have all had some sort of CRM. It is not one error, but the error chain that took place here. It is a classic example of the error chain not being broken. I am sure that many of them will come to light in the investigation. The NTSB is good, they will uncover all the errors that the crew and everyone else involved made. I for one know this set up very well. I have been flying in there for over nine years. I have been one to get the take off clearance on taxi out with someone on a five mile final. You get in to a hurry. I have caught my self almost taking the first left turn on to runway 26, but we had our charts out and were heads up because of the pre departure brief.
This accident is one that will make me double and triple check everything for some time to come. The saying "There are those who have and those who will." come to mind. If we are truly the professional group that we want to be seen as, each and every one of us will realize that on any given day it would and could of been us. I will greave the loss, but I will learn from it, knowing that I am not perfect.
This accident is one that will make me double and triple check everything for some time to come. The saying "There are those who have and those who will." come to mind. If we are truly the professional group that we want to be seen as, each and every one of us will realize that on any given day it would and could of been us. I will greave the loss, but I will learn from it, knowing that I am not perfect.
Last edited by acl65pilot; 08-28-2006 at 04:52 AM. Reason: mis spell
08-28-2006 | 05:31 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
From: midsize
To all of those on here who say: "How could they do this?"
First off, the ones of you that say this apparently have no 121 experience or ever flown into LEX, or both. A typical departure out of LEX goes like this: Pushabck, call for taxi, tower says taxi to RWY 22. From that point, it's only a 3-4 minute taxi to the runway. With checkilists etc involved, it can be a very busy few minutes. That time of morning, tower is usually clearing you for takeoff while you're still taxiing, so it all happens without stopping. This is pretty much common where ever we go. Anyone who has flown into LEX under these circumstances can back me up on this next point. Once out to the RWY(s), 26 is very tempting to make the turn onto. I would say that 90% of the times I've been up there, there's always some mention, jokingly alot of times, about making sure we taxi cross 26 instead of onto it, as we are actully taxiing across it going to 22. All this is assuming "10sm and clear" Wx. Throw in 6am, light rain, still dark for the most part, well now you have even more links in the "chain of events." As far as not verifying the heading on takeoff, it's easy not to double-check it or even if you do look down, you think you see what you should because in your mind, you "know" you're on the right RWY. Day in and day out, 5 times a day, we do takeoffs and probably less than 0.1% of the time is there never a question about being on the wrong RWY. As any investigator will tell you, complacency is a top killer in the aviation business. We're all guilty of it, every flight, every day in some form or another. Anyone who tells you otherwise, is a prime example of suffering from complacency. I'm not trying to solve the case already, just trying to shed some light on the subject for folks who haven't been in the scenerio that this Comair crew was probably in, just like many others of us have been.
First off, the ones of you that say this apparently have no 121 experience or ever flown into LEX, or both. A typical departure out of LEX goes like this: Pushabck, call for taxi, tower says taxi to RWY 22. From that point, it's only a 3-4 minute taxi to the runway. With checkilists etc involved, it can be a very busy few minutes. That time of morning, tower is usually clearing you for takeoff while you're still taxiing, so it all happens without stopping. This is pretty much common where ever we go. Anyone who has flown into LEX under these circumstances can back me up on this next point. Once out to the RWY(s), 26 is very tempting to make the turn onto. I would say that 90% of the times I've been up there, there's always some mention, jokingly alot of times, about making sure we taxi cross 26 instead of onto it, as we are actully taxiing across it going to 22. All this is assuming "10sm and clear" Wx. Throw in 6am, light rain, still dark for the most part, well now you have even more links in the "chain of events." As far as not verifying the heading on takeoff, it's easy not to double-check it or even if you do look down, you think you see what you should because in your mind, you "know" you're on the right RWY. Day in and day out, 5 times a day, we do takeoffs and probably less than 0.1% of the time is there never a question about being on the wrong RWY. As any investigator will tell you, complacency is a top killer in the aviation business. We're all guilty of it, every flight, every day in some form or another. Anyone who tells you otherwise, is a prime example of suffering from complacency. I'm not trying to solve the case already, just trying to shed some light on the subject for folks who haven't been in the scenerio that this Comair crew was probably in, just like many others of us have been.
08-28-2006 | 05:37 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
From: Right Seat 744
I am by no way knocking anyone or anything by my last post. I'm just saying that we all need to remember one of the basics of piloting 101.......a good crosscheck can and will save you many times.
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