Airline Pilot Central Forums - AQP Training

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyWilliams (Post 944012)

So, how does it work? AQP for what, recurrent? Initial? Upgrade?

Having worked for the government for 2 decades, I tend to think of anything new with acronyms usually means another cluster.

You can do it for all three. No conventional check ride. There is an MAnuever Validation, which is v1cut, se ils, etc. You can train to proficency on it. You're not supposed to be able to fail it but you can get an incomplete (run out of time). They also use some maneuvers like the v1 cuts and se ils and grade your first attempt and use the de-indentified data to see how the pilot group is doing.

Then the Line Oriented Evaluation is the checking event. It is a line flight with a malfunction or two thrown in. It is the jeopardy event.

Much better training as it is closer to real line life.

Also my current airline, the first two legs of IOE are scored on various areas of operations (take-off, taxi procedure, etc.) on a scale of 1 to 4. The data is de identified and used to check how the initial training is doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 943851)

Advanced Qualification Program - the way all airlines should be training, IMO.

Agreed. My previous employer had it when I got hired in 2000.

My current employer that seems to like to tout themselves as a "leader" in various things is finally stepping into the 20th century way of training airline pilots. Still don't have it yet, but the final stages are being completed.

I got the following from a previous post on AQP

Quote:

Advance Qualification Program training. It's different than "conventional training" in that there is no technical "check ride". Usually an MV (maneuvers validation) and a LOFT (line orientated flight training). The MV is just that, maneuvers. Steep turns, stalls, whatever. To make sure you do them to the appropriate standard. The loft is for the judgment and overall captain/fo assessment for line operations. It's a train to proficiency method vs doing the required items and doing them either pass/fail. If you screwup, you get training till you get it right vs. getting a pink slip for an unsat performance.

There is usually a different grading criteria, like intentionally exceeding a limitation, safety of flight in doubt, etc are showstoppers or un sats, just like under conventional training.

It can also be A LOT more paper work and head ache for the company as many times the data is tracked by the FAA, and there are more criteria that has to be met as far as how the training was conducted, etc. Especially of the AQP program is new to the airline.

On the MV you get "mulligans" as they are called. You can screw up one thing twice or two things once without getting an un sat. If there is time left at the end of the MV (usually is), you can repeat the one thing you messed up, up to twice. Or the two things once, before getting and un sat and additional training. At least, it was like that at the AQP operator I was at, don't know if it's carrier specific or not.

I guess it just depends on the way your carrier handles it. At the carrier/AQP I was at, the events were pretty close to conventional as far the schedule goes. Also, the oral was similar. Just no pressure of getting a pink slip, just an un sat and retraining till I get it right,

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueMoon (Post 944029)

You can do it for all three.

Comair uses it for both of our pilot training events- recurrent and downgrades.

When Comair was first approved in 2005, we went to a 9-month recurrent cycle. After a year or two, the FAA approved for us to go back to a 12 month cycle.

I have no experience with AQP, but from what I read here, it doesn't sound good. "Train to proficiency"? Come on! You can almost train a monkey to proficiency. There has to be a cut-off point somewhere.

As for steep turns, stalls etc.. nothing wrong with that. Sure, you don't do them in the real world. However, that doesn't mean that being proficient in these maneuvers does not apply to the real world.

It sounds like some feel-good make everybody happy singing Kumbiya crap....again, just from what I am reading on this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapata (Post 944204)

It's a good thing. It allows the airlines to tailor their training program more to what they actually do rather than a "one size fits all." More actual training and checking rather than "check the box and move on" type stuff. The reality is every carrier's AQP is a bit different because each one wrote it and the FAA signed off on it.

RAH is in the process of getting it rolling. We've been told less than a year now. It will be for all training.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piperpilot12w (Post 943811)

Are any of these Regionals doing AQP style training now?

SkyWest ?
ASA ?
ExpressJet ?
American Eagle ?

Doing a search I found the following are AQP
PSA
Comair
Compass
Piedmont

PSA does not have AQP. Its actually the opposite here. The only training we get here is for initial and upgrade. We don't even have manuals anymore For recurrent you just show up for a PC. No warm up sim or anything. Pass and your good to go for another 6 months. Fail and that's the first step in the firing process.

jetBlue AQP recurrent once a year 3 days long.

Can someone please update the current training/recurrent style at RAH and AE? Thanks.