Ok tough guy with all your my regional is better than your talk. How are we bottom feeders, because we went without a contract for 10 years? Or is it because we seem to have a good relationship with our mainline partners, and continue to get awarded flying? Maybe you should educate yourself before you start spouting off like you know it all.

By the way I voted No and funny how the highest % of no votes came from PNCL guys. Explain that Einstein...

Are you Pinnacle Holdings?

If not you purchased squat.

I have my voting receipt if you would like to see it. At the onset I thought it was a decent deal and I still do. However it still doesn't pay me and my co-workers what I think we are worth. I realize the negotiators may have got every cent out of the company but it still doesn't amount to much. Paying a new-hire $23,000 to live in New York on reserve, with 11 days off and no vacation is a bad deal. How can the company and Union justify this? No trip and duty rigs? Why the disparity between Majors and Regionals in per diem? We are staying in the same hotels, buying the same food in the same airports. 11 days off is not enough if you want to keep in tact any semblance of a family, especially when you are forced to commute to New York. The one compelling reason to vote in favor was the prevention of whipsawing, that was the one great thing in this contract. I'm not in High School and far removed from college, I don't need to be cool, I just want to pay my mortgage, be with my family and retire before 65.

on top of that, you do realize Delta gave away XJ and Compass...82.5 million was a steal for 126 airplanes... especially considering...77 of them are 76 seaters

Your kidding with this right???

Technically, you were never without a contract

What do you mean?

listen guys, Saying my regional is better than your regional is like saying my poop stinks better than your poop. I was just hoping that the pilots of Pinnacle holdings could have voted in a contract that brought the bar up a little. How are we supposed to negotiate when they waive your new contract in our faces saying that this is the new standard. Your pay rates are slightly better than our SIX YEAR OLD CONCESSIONARY rates and most of the work rules are still below ours. I wanted you guys to truely get an industry leading contract because it's nothing but good for all of us. The other problem is that there is no education for those entering the regional life. Most think that all regionals are the same and that is simply not true. All regionals are bad for the profession as a whole but unfortunately at this point it is one of very few ways to get to a major. As long as guys that dont know any better keep showing up to the places with subpar contracts then the whipsawing will continue.

You need to read the contract we just voted in before talking because XJET nor ASA has work rules overall better, they both have things I like, and this contract we voted in has things you don't have also, we didn't raise the roof with this you are right, but we made the foundation alot stronger.

Let's see what ASA and XJET can get, you're up to bat now.

Now Bartok, you know that if some 21 year old 300 hour Big Sky punk was arguing with you back in the day of the sham bankrupcy/XJ Holdings formation/Big Sky purchase and told you "you didn't buy me XJ Holdings did" you would have slapped his candy *ss all the way back to Montana.....:D

Not true mooney, I did want them to integrate the seniority lists, but I didn't feel any entitlement because I work for XJ, only that my DOH was used as the more weighted factor in SLI.

Nothing has changed.

Out of curiosity, what would your relative senority at xj be if you subtracted all saab positions?

Less than it is.

Let me ask you a question, 9E I presume, are you in the top 25 - 30% at 9E?

Because straight DOH helps everyone at 9E below that.

That may be true, it is also probably true that doh will hurt the lower 50% of mesabas pilots. So are you suggesting, the junior 9e guys get together with the senior xj guys and play "let's ****** our buddies"? I just thought a some thought should be given to the fact that pre-purchase xj was going to furlough roughly half the list. The same consideration should be given to the fact that Colgan would never have the growth from the q400s if they had not been aquired and funded by Pinnacle. As long as those two factors weigh in to the sli I will think the outcome is "fair".

And consideration should be given to that fact that Pinnacle pilots own nothing, Pinnacle Holdings owns all 3 of us, Pinnacle airlines purchased nothing.

Your argument holds as much weight as the fact that XJ negotiators got this deal done for 9E.

And I'm not saying screw anyone, I just think straight DOH is the fairest method to most pilots.

Just so you know, Pinnacle Corp didn't even exist until after Colgan was purchased by Pinnacle Airlines Inc...

Doesn't DL still owns Mesaba's 76 seaters? That is why the price was a "steal"

I know, I just think this "ownage" argument is funny.

We're all "owned".

Just pawns in someone elses game.

Exactly!

I find it so funny that people always spout off against management until they get in these little poop throwing contests. Then, all of a sudden it is 'we' bought you and 'we' did this or that. We are all just cogs in a wheel, if one of us falls off there are 8,000 more in a spare parts box to take our place, at a cheaper rate! All we can do is operate the aircraft safely, go home and vote on things with our conscience. I sleep well at night, do you?

edit - deleted

My argument has nothing to do with the fact that "we" bought xj. It has everything to do with the career expectations of all three groups pre-purchase.

So things change, and they were out of our control. It appears that Pinnacle Corp. had this in the works for a while now and it may be one of, or even the main reason for the delay in the contract until after the purchase. The fact is that together all of our career expectations are better than if we remained separate. I don't understand your argument to throw so many under the bus when in fact you will probably gain if the SLI gets done fairly. It seams you have the all or nothing attitude, and tht's going to be a hard sell for the majority of the group

Pinnacle Holdings existed on paper before the Colgan purchase, it just wasn't being used. The ORIGINAL plan was to start up a non-union carrier. However, the lock was put on that during contract negotiations, so they went out and BOUGHT one. I never could understand how they said they couldn't start a non-union carrier, but they could buy an existing one and keep it separate under a corporate umbrella.

As for the original question....go with the one that's going to give you the better QoL. ATL isn't going to be impossible to get. You'd probably have better luck getting ATL than MSP or MEM in the near future....

Yup.

Actually the last vacancy had some very junior FOs go to ATL, I think they prolly have been at the company a couple of months or so...

Who realistically has career expections at a regional? What kind of career expectations do you have? You can take your career expectations and your seniority and have a good career at Pinnacle. Enjoy your 10 days off as you go into your retirement.

As bad as regonals are... There are few jobs where you can make 100K and have 1/2 the month off. Just sayin

Sounds like you need some tutoring/practice with prefbid ;)

100k is after 15 to 20 years at a regional and maybe after 8 base changes...

1/2 the month off is more like half the month gone. Other jobs you're at home every day.

It is what it is but with the amount of time and investment that's required of this profession, and certainly sacrifice, you can certainly do a lot better in other fields. Just sayin

You are all true fools for staying in a job you dislike so much. Lifes too short... move on.

which one is better qol-
 

I will live in my base, and can I get hired on the 900?

Only post SLI probably. Maybe not then depending on if there are fences or not.

FYI- a bottom lineholder at DL is 15-16 days off.

Was making more than 100k at year 3...

Just sayin! 100k isn't what it used to be, and to have to top out at that with our qualifications is selling yourself way short. While you argue over whether XJ has better workrules than this new contract, it's all crap compared to even the remnants of a concessionary contract at the big leagues. THAT is what it should be compared to and what should be strived for.

Agree 100%. Read my post again. Didn't say I planned on staying. I plan to move on soon. I just have a good quality of life now. I never take the worries of my job home. My buddies do. It's been stagnant lately I know. Give it some time and have some perspective. Enjoy the ride.

Good deal.. I was more pointing out the irony in the arguing over who's got the industry leading contract and crap, as well as the QOL and 100k statement. It's like fat kids arguing over who wouldn't get out last in a game of dodgeball, haha. The fact is that it is a completely different life on the other side of the coin! That is what the regional contracts should be striving for in compensation... not rehasing the same crap over and over.

Perspective is key, and I'm simply trying to help those here have some perspective. Hopefully the pickings get a bit less slim here in the future as well so those that want to move on and are able to can.

Yup. Having the best regional contract is like having the nicest Pacer on the block.

You mean other jobs like long haul trucker, merchant seaman, and railroad engineer?

If you didn't notice, this is a transportation industry. We move things over long distances. That pretty much means we won't be home every night. Deal with it or move on. If you are in love with flying, there are plenty of "day jobs" for pilots. Find one and be happy.

Everytime I pushed for increases I was told that we are a Regional not SWA. The Union told me they didn't leave a single cent on the table. I wanted a contract that made it so expensive for Delta they would just assume take the flying back. That is what every Regional pilot should push for, instead everyone was worried about losing there job if the contract was voted down. This industry is never going to move forward. Again I ask, what kind of career expectations do people have at Pinnacle? Only a select top few who got stuck here because of 9/11 should have expectations, my only expectation is to get the heck out of here in the next two years.

I think you are confused about the term "career expectations" when applied to a merger. The term refers to what is likely to happen to an employee group if they had continued on alone or status quo. In this case, Colgan would have never had the cash to buy Q400s and double the size of thier operation. Pre-purchase a Colgan first officer would have to wait for Captains to leave to greener partures before they would get a chance at moving up and getting an upgrade, the same goes for Pinnacle. At Mesaba, Delta was already parking the Saabs and Mesaba was preparing for another round of massive furloughs. Had is not been for the purchase and merger with Colgan the expectation for a Mesaba pilot was furlough for the bottom 40-50%, downgrade for the 25-50% pilots and decreased QOL for the top 25%.

YES YES YES! They should take it all back. I dont want it!

Let's not forget the 120 most undesirable airframes in the world that Pinnacle brings, everyone knows those are going away as soon as they can get rid of them. Not to mention performance numbers allowing the parent airline legally able to withdraw all flying. If Pinnacle would have continued on the path they were going then no one there would have a job, that doesn't bode well for your career expectations by the definition you set. I would have liked my so called career expectations more at Colgan with all the Q400s or even at XJ with the flow and solid performance numbers leading to more flying despite the loss of the Saabs. I guess this is how these things work though, we see things from our own perspective and think our own side should be on top. In the end this debate is futile, what is decided is decided. We all know it will be a mix of relative seniority and DOH. Really, what more do you want?