MESA & Johnny O
 

Guys, I myslef have fallen victim to Calling Johnny O some bad names, but the truth is, as long as there are Starryeyed CFI's who keep applying to MESA why should he have to raise the QOL, pay etc... its the pilots that really should be blamed for allowing this to go on. Once the thrill of flying 121 has come and gone (goes away quickly at MESA from what I have been told) the pilots should leave and get on with a good airline, like AWAC, CHQ, XJT, SKW, whatever. Why should we leave it up to John O to improve QOL, he never will, and why should he? He will abuse as much as the pilot group allows him too. You people at MESA (most anyway), by allowing this abuse to go on, are bringing down the REGIONAL LEVEL, The MAJORS, (for the most part) don't have this problem becuase the pilots have worked hard to get there and simply won't allow the abuse, the pilots at MESA, however will take the abuse as long as they can fly a jet. Anybody agree disagree I would love to get some feedback here, Thanks guys. I don;t know too much about GOJETS QOL so I won't comment, there pay is a joke though that I do know

P.S. I am speaking in generalities, I know not all MESA guys aloow this to go on, I hope not anyway:D

Do you know what a Gojet pilot makes? If you knew the real answer, you would not say that the pay is a joke. I suggest you research it. FO second year pay is weak, but everything else is right with the industry.

You do realize that pay isn't everything, don't you? Gojets has credit only with practically zero work rules.

It sounds like small potatoes but comparing a just turned second year FO at Skywest/XJT/AWAC and one at Gojet and you'll see a drastic difference in W2's over the course of a year. Probably somewhere in the $10k/range, which is about 30% greater, all for doing the same job, and for flying a small a/c (save SkyW).

I'm guessing you work at GOjet? How does it feel to be stabbing your fellow co-workers in the back at TSA? You must have some great morals.

I Left Mesa for X-Jet, after 2 years of mesa's bull$hit. It is really like night and day. I'm HAPPY...

Contract negotiations...
 

It all comes down to Union Leadership and contract negotiations...The Unity at Mesa was week the last go around. The people that were in charge had been away from flying the line for a little to long and were out of touch with the QOL of the line pilot. That being said...the pilots voted to PASS the last contract under pressure from leadership and they were busy battling things like SCOPE rather than pay rates.

You can't get everything the first few contracts and expect to be ahead of airlines that have been negotiation for decades. With new leadership in place and SCOPE taken care of Mesa should make some improvements in their next go around. Horizon was not the greatest place to work for a few years back...and then they FINALY got a descent contract.

The commuters will be making lots of changes in the industry. As they get stronger and get larger market share they will redefine QOL, pay rates, and schedules with the RJ fleets. You will not get there overnight but it will get better.

One last thing...if you look at the industry cycle it goes up and down. I think we have seen the bottom or close to it...the next ten years will show big gains, turn around, and increased flying...keep the faith and think long term.

We are our own worst enemy...Unity of the pilots will be key. Not just at our own airline but all of them.

BWP

That is where you are wrong my friend. I do not work for Gojet, nor do I endorse Gojet. What people need to understand is Gojet is going nowhere.

actually mesa got screwed because they took one for the team to get freedom under their wing............to do what it takes to get someone to join a union is a noble mentality. its just too bad alpa isnt worth it anymore

what did MESA do to you???
 

ok, i understand a lot of you dont like Mesa, but what EXACTLY did they do to **** you off???

list it out!! QOL??? describe....... give me DETAILS, not just rants!!!

thanks!

A leopard has great camouflage, but his spots remain the same. jeff122670 is most likely a mesa i.t. trash talker hunter. Everyone knows that mesa has 0 respect for its work force. How many times can you post the same crap? They don’t care as long as the classes are full. Mesa must be in negotiations for a contract to see who they can flush out.

if you were at MESA, i am assuming you left because they didnt have anger management classes...geeeeez.

i am just asking the question. i am in the military and looking at future careers and i just want to know what makes THEM so bad when compared to the others???? educate me.........but give me details.... if you say they suck, they tell me WHY they suck and if the others are the same...

thanks! and you know, they ARE serving brewed decaf, perhaps that would calm you down....:)

Low Fuel is correct...it would not be unexpected to see mesa staff "posing" on the airline forums to attempt to identify and record the statements of unhappy employees (they are legion).

The work environment is almost unbelievably bad. It would take me an hour to tell all of the stories. Suffice to say that what you read on the internet is probably not as bad as it really is, my personal experiences led me to trade a no-commute domicile and a captain upgrade to start over elsewhere. As a military guy, you can do FAR, FAR better, and should never think of the word "mesa" again.

the pilot group is ready to take zero BS next year with section 6 negotiations. they WILL raise the bar.

I hope you're right. That would make for some serious talk on these threads. Can you imagine if the union brought the contract up to par with everyone else, then what would all the haters have to say?? Then again that would just make the criticism that much worse for GoJet's and the likes.

I think we waste too much time on here bashing the Mesa's and GoJet's. Personally i dont think they are the real problem. Places like Gulfstream where I PAY YOU to fly in the right seat **** everything up. That place is some bull ****, those kids should be sent to an island.

As far as airlines are concerned it comes down to pay structure, work rules and maintenance. SkyWest has a complex pay structure that ends up paying you much more than the hourly rate shows. Here's some differences between the two (SKW and Mesa).

SKW

1. Guaranteed 3:45 mins. pay regardless of what you work.
2. Get the better of Actual Block and Average Block for a flight.
3. For every minute you work over 12 hours of duty you get that minute in pay added to your block. (i.e. 13:21 hours duty and 7 hours block = 8:21 pay.
4. 100% pay for Dead Head.
5. If a flight gets cancelled or a day gets cancelled then you get paid for the entire flight/day.
6. $1.60 for every hour away from base.
7. Crew Support does a good job working with us.
8. Quarterly bonuses that can be as much as $500 for FOs and $1000 for CAs. It's not much but it adds up.
9. One of the best maintained airlines in the US

Mesa

1. No daily guarantees
2. Only paid average block. (You go over, tough luck, no pay)
3. 50% for Dead Head
4. $1.20 for every hour away from base.
5. Flight/Day gets concelled then you don't get paid. (No Fly No Pay)
6. Just ride on one of their aircraft and you can see how well maintained they are.

Unfortunately the rest should be added by a Mesa pilot. I would like for a Mesa pilot to elaborate on the rest. I have heard stories from some Mesa friends of mine that they have actually works stand-ups where they didn't get a hotel. Also, that if you get reflowed they will actually meet you at the airplane to do so. Of course SKW does neither.

If I have a month where I block 85 hours I usually get paid for 90-95 hours.

The bottom line is that we get paid much more for the same amount of work that Mesa pilots do. Plus, SKW work rules are pretty good.

No offence, but I'll believe it when I see it. The Farmington wonders, along with all the new guys that drink the Kool aid about trading QOL for a quick upgrade, will be the undoing...again. I can just see it J.O. brings up the Hawaiian operation loosing money, attempts some manuver to temporarily dilute the stock value, and people will just give in to "save" the company. As big of an ******* as J.O. is he's not stupid. He's got a lot in common with Castro, Chavez, and few other manipulative tools of our time.

I hope for the best, but have my doubts. The old MEC were clowns at best, crooks at worst. The new ones are an MAPD mafia that started out by taking a cooperative approach with management. OK, that was worth a try maybe, but they have been taken for a ride and the pilot group along with them... And the recent communications from the MEC appear WAAAAY too favorable to the company on policy interpretations. I'm not sure those guys have the motive or tenacity to lead a full confrontation with JO. Time will tell...

JetJock16,

thanks for the info!! wow, it DOES seem clear, from what you said, that MESA DOES suck.

i have a guy in my squadron right now that used to fly for Mesa and decided to come back into the military (he got out before his 20 and came back).

i will have to bend his ear to get some more details but THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY.!!

talk to you later!

thanks boys
 

thanks for the post guys some good stuff, lets start a GOJET thread next haha

Ah, but you seem to defend them more often than not. Especially with that ignorant pay commment, when you know as well as I (I think...) that a straight pay rate isn't the best way to compare carriers.

And I assume you also know that Gojets was established to get around the TSA pilots senority list (under the guise of scope). It's bad enough when one company is whipsawed against another, but now there is internal company whipsawing. Not good.

Excellent....
 

Ultimately, people will all act in their own best interests, and that includes people negotiating pilot contracts, CEOs, pilots, etc. For me, Mesa is a stepping stone, a means to an end. I'm more than happy to learn more, as long as it's based on reality.

The fundamental principle that some people seem to miss is that in a human society a cooperative approach tend to be better for all of the members in the long run (even wolves and monkeys know this). Acting in your own most immediate selfish interest harms others in the short term and yourself in the long run.

There's a few major airline pilots that think all RJ pilots should be taken out and shot...that's obviously not practical. What is realistic is encouraging every entry-level pilot to steer clear of the worst of the worst (gojets, mesa, etc). That would force the bottom end to improve a bit or perish. This is actually not a bad thing for you...you might have to flight instruct a few more months to qualify for a better job, but in the long run you will be much happier.

Mesa pilots are having very real problems getting hired by majors, this is a fact that I have witnessed first hand. I know, I know, your uncle's brother's cousin was a mesa guy and he got hired at FEDEX, there's always exceptions...but you're not going to be one unless you know somebody. If you're new at mesa I'm sure your seniority is climbing for the stratosphere at a rate that would peg the VSI on the space shuttle. But if you want to sober up a little, take a look at the seniority list right below where jet captain upgrades are happening. Pick a name, and watch that name's progression over a six month period. You will probably note that he's not moving at all...captains are not leaving unless they turn 60, die, or drop out to do real estate. Even if you are the greatest, best connected major airline candidate there is, how are you going to get the PIC time if none of those captains leave? Are you -8 or 1900? In that case you can get the PIC. Otherwise...

I would strongly suggest applying to other regionals NOW. You will be glad you did in the long run.

very well said

I'll chime in here, as several of you have asked why one would willingly work for a company such as Mesa, let alone someone like JO. I think it might be of value to explain my story, which may lend some insight as to why I chose Mesa. I'll start off by saying that, ultimately, my decision to go to Mesa was one of the worst decisions I have ever made.

Let me just give you an overview of my past situation. After being in the corporate world for many years, as well as being in business for myself, I decided to abandon that career in hopes of becoming a professional pilot (not necessarily an "airline pilot", just a pilot who enjoys their job, and life...flying whatever). At the time, I was 30 years old, and knew absolutely NOTHING about flying, nor the industry (I'm not joking when I say that I didn't know what an aileron was, and thought a United Express pilot was employed by United!).

I knew several pilots in my neighborhood at the time (2 American, 1 United, and 1 Southwest) and was confident that they could best guide me on this career-change. Interested in soliciting their advice, I asked them collectively what one in my situation should do in hopes of launching a career as a pilot. Each and every one of them summed it up by saying "whatever you do, get done with your training, build time, and get on a seniority list ASAP to get PIC time". It didn't take long for me to understand the significance of PIC time (speaking of which, I had never even heard of "PIC" before...again, shows you how clueless I was).

Anyhow, fast forward, I've accelerated my training at a local FBO, was offered a job as a CFI, and was instructing for upwards of a year...full-time. My logbook showed a grand total of 319 hours dual given, and I needed 87 more hours of multi-time to meet the bare minumim that most regionals were requiring at the time...100 hours. Single-engine time was not necessarily the problem, as I knew that would continue to eventually grow, but my flight school required 85 hours of multi-time just to teach in the Seminole. In short, I had my MEI, but couldn't use it! I, along with my fellow instructors, were "pimping" and competing for multi-time everywhere, but were all frustrated by the lack of availability. Mind you, this was back in late 2001/2002, so to say that competition was fierce for time-building opportunities, and jobs, is an understatement.

Given what seemed like a stagnation point, one my neighbors came over to talk to me about a program at Mesa that offered one an interview if they succesfully completed a training program. I recall vividly debating him on pursuing this route as I mentioned that my research showed Mesa to be a pretty rotten place to work. As well, I told him that this sounded like the pay-for-training thing that everyone says to avoid. His thoughts were that this was more like "pay-for-interview", and that he had a friend that had to pay for his MBA in order to get promoted where he worked...so same thing. "Okay, whatever", I thought, "sounds like a twisted analogy, but I'll bite" (no need to say how stupid I was there). Over and over, he told me how important getting a seniority number was, and that Mesa tended to upgrade quickly...and, of course, how important PIC time was (especially, in his views, to a "late bloomer", such as myself) . He put me in touch with a guy that flew with him as an FO that went through this "PACE" program several years back, flew the 1900, and got on with American.

So, I called the guy, got the skinny, and was still not sold. I told my neighbor that I was actually really happy instructing (I found the job itself very rewarding, albeit the pay) and would just do the typical route of getting a freight gig, building time, and then apply to SkyWest (my first choice, for a number of reasons). He asked, again, how I would get the multi-time I needed, and I replied "I don't know, but it'll work out". He didn't seem to like that answer, and gave me that questioning look like "you don't know what you're doing!".

A few weeks later, and I was talking to 3 of the pilots mentioned above at one of our neighborhood BBQ's. The American pilot who talked to me initially mentioned this Mesa PACE program to the two others, and explained to them what the deal was. Unanimously, they agreed with him that someone in my situation should pursue this (for the same reasons he gave me initially...getting a seniority number, quick upgrade, PIC, blah, blah, blah). I guess at that point I felt that I was not in a position to be challenging their judgements, especially considering how "behind the curve" I had been on what I needed to do to get this career off the ground. Obviously, I had aspirations to get to where they were, and felt they probably knew better than I on how to get there.

I remember looking at my computer as I was filling out that appication, and questioning myself...over and over. Asking questions like "you've given up everything (prior career) in hopes of being happy doing what you're doing...why are you going somewhere that people don't seem to be happy?". Other questions came to mind as well, but it seemed like each time they did, my neighbor's face would pop up with that questioning look saying "gotta get that PIC time", or "I know better than you do what you're doing".

A date that lives in infamy...March 2003, and I (somewhat reluctantly) fired that application off...

So, to spare you with more details, I got through the PACE program, and got hired on with Mesa in 2004. My story may at least provide some rationale as to why some people do things that others find completely senseless. If I would have found a site such as this, or talked to regional pilots themselves, there is no doubt in my mind that I would have done things differently.

Many that read this will say that I got what I deserved for not doing better research. And you're absolutely right. I looked at the company itself, and was impressed with it's profitabilty, growth and the fact that Mesa had continued to hire when others weren't. But why I never dug up and read the specifics of the contract is beyond me. I had no idea what "junior assigning" meant, or "segment time", or stuff like that. But I know I would have balked at not getting paid for time you flew (or sat) as well as not getting paid for some cancellations, etc. I shudder to think just how little I knew about this industry, and how mis-informed/aka CLUELESS I was on just about everything applicable to my life ahead as a pilot.

I know that I would be much happier at a place like SkyWest for the same reasons I initially wanted to go there. However, after being at Mesa for 2+ years, and being in my late 30's, I really don't feel that starting over at another regional would be in my best interest. Ultimately, I could be wrong....especially considering that a newhire at SkyWest (or Shuttle, as well as others) may upgrade sooner than I will here. Certainly, they'll be leading a MUCH better life once they do. But for those saying "why do people stay at Mesa?"....it's a bit more complicated than you may think.

To sum it up, I feel that life is all about making decisions based on the information available at the time...and then figuring out later whether or not that was the right decision. If it's not, you learn from your mistake, and try to avoid making the same mistake again. That's exactly what I've done with my decision to come to Mesa. I've realized it was a mistake, am trying to make the best of it (or possibly make a change to rectify it), and learn from it ultimately.

...so there you have it.

EFIS,

If you are interested in the western US, you will gain better relative seniority at SKW in three months than you will in three years in PHX. But the hiring spree won't last forever, so if you're gonna do it, do it now. My situation was very similar to yours in all respects (except MAPD), and I no longer lay awake at night worrying that I will be condemned to life at mesa...and it's a really nice feeling, let me tell you.

Rick, how are your prospects of getting out of Mesa looking? I heard you mention Spirit in other threads.

Trust me, I still consider leaving here...practically on a day-to-day basis on a typical trip. Many of my classmates jumped over to SkyWest after their first year, and couldn't be happier. Like me, it was a drive to get back out West (and obviously it's a much better company to work for than Mesa). I guess a few months ago I just considered that a lateral move (even though it would be a vertical move in terms of QOL, etc) maybe wasn't the best thing. I continue to struggle with that. And you're totally right about PHX...that's a death trap.

rickair, how long were you at Mesa before you decided to take the leap?

Bout the same as you. If you're gonna do it, do it fast, you could have several hundred numbers below you in 6 months.

The other thing about SKW is one year seat lock, with NO lock for FO's who want to upgrade...if you're willing to upgrade over to the Brasilia, it's a year and change...and it will not be on the east coast!

I can think of no better purpose this forum serves than to spread the truth (good and bad) about the profession we all work in. I say, kudos to EFIS COMP MON for his frank, honest insightful, reasons for working at his airline and pointing out its short comings.
Mesa airlines seems to be an experiment on just how low, we as pilots, are willing to go to fly commercial airplanes. I mean this as no slight to EFIS COMP MON or his colleges at Mesa, but...... this company is surly testing the limits of how little one is willing to be paid/abused/junior manned/pushed/etc,etc and still provide a professional product for the airlines they contract for.
I wish everyone one at Mesa the best. I guess everyone has to look out for him/herself because your collective powers (up to this point) have failed to provide even the most basic of protections most regional/larger airlines pilots expect. While most pilots have taken a step back in recent years on pay and work rules/benefits, this company is truly "testing the waters" as to how little professional aviators are willing to accept to wear the uniform. Shame on United, Delta, USAways for doing business with this dirt bag outfit. I hope it comes back to haunt them

very true I party blame the scum CEO of the larger airlines for doing business with such a low class outfit, but hey its asll about the bottom line so ......

My story comes along the same tracks as EFIS COMP MON. I got hired on with mesa in early 2004 on the ERJ and based in DCA then displaced to CLT without a complaint. I was in CLT on reserve for eight months before holding a crappy line with 10days off and 4 hour sits almost every day.

US Airways decided that the best move for them was to have the CRJ-9’s based in CLT and what do you know there their now. A long story on how it all worked out but a lot of senior pilots got screwed. First they sent all the CLT based pilots a notice of displacement, your choices IAD/MCO. Days later a system wide bid went out for a new base opening in IAH. Of course everyone knew what was happing, open IAH place the 9’s there for due time once the last ERJ is out of CLT will re-open the base screwing all the Jr. Capt’s and FO’s. Just saved us a lot of training $’s at the expense of 350+ pilots. Also all the poor IAH based crewmembers that were told that IAH would be open for 5+ years more like 11 months.

I myself chose MCO, but due to the shortage of ERJ pilots in IAD I was Jr. assigned TDY reserve, my global seniority was 1190 out of 2000 and some change. 18 other CA/FO’s shared my same fate in DEC 2005. After 5 months of b**** reserve I decide its time to leave, starting a new family and seeing them 3-5 days a month was unacceptable. Left in April to make that dreaded regional-to-regional jump and landed a job with X-jet and couldn’t be happier. My buddy who is still with mesa and TDYed in IAD just now got a class date for MCO, that’s almost a full year living in a hotel on reserve.

I would have to say I think a lot about leaving a company with 2 years vested with about 8-10 months out from upgrading. But mesa changed me as in my personality; I became very bitter and negative about every thing. My family noticed the changes and brought the sore subject up, I guess it was an awaking for me. After many talks with my parents and spouse my mind was made up to make the lateral move to another regional.

What it comes down to don’t put your family, health, and QOL on the bottom step for that convenient PIC turbine. I would much rather be at X-Jet for 8 years happy then Mesa for 5 years and truly depressed.

It’s never to late to change your path just another story to tell…

I'm gone. :D :D :D

I see your point LOW FUEL (and by the way, congrats on getting out of here!). It's tough to be so close to upgrade and go back to the bottom of the seniority list elsewhere. I guess that's the crux I'm in right now. Some people say that "all regionals are the same...suck it up, get your PIC time, and get out". But we both know that's not true...at least so far as regionals being the same anyhow.

Mesa makes me feel that I'm sacrificing my values and personal dignity in sticking it out here solely for the sakes of upgrade. I've always held my beliefs in high esteem in regards to treating others the way that you would expect/want to be treated. In my opinion, an employer simply should be more respectful and understanding of its employees...and not breed such hatred that exists amongst this company. From scheduling, planning, payroll, and especially management, I've never encountered such hostility and animosity before. It's truly pathetic.

Anyhow, I guess I've got some thinking to do...

It was a personal dignity type event that put me over the edge (I was leaning that way anyway). The people that run that company are the worst sort of filth imaginable. We actually had a couple of West Point grads come in on the management team, but they left in disgust in short order...I wonder why.

I think the overarching reason I won't work for Mesa, after reading these boards, doing research, and watching that employee video, is this: you never know when the industry will take a downturn, so I want to make sure I start out my career at a place where I would be happy if I ended up getting stuck there for 10 years. I think if someone can't say they would spend 10-15 years there if worst came to worst, they shouldn't take a job with Mesa.

A town in my state recently switched over to Mesa as their Essential Air service carrier...TSA dropped their J41 service there...all these local businessmen were all smiling and elated at their wonderful new B1900 contract with Mesa...I wonder if that town realizes their pilots might have slept in the aisle of the plane the night before. Maybe I should call the FBO down there and see if they can't hook em up with a couch or something. The chairs in the terminal aren't very comfortable.

I agree with nicholasblonde. I could easily go to Mesa or TSA with my times right now. However, having read this and knowing what friends of mine have gone through leads me to stick with instructing a little longer (which I enjoy doing, just wish it paid better) and aim high in the first place. I don't want to be on first year pay for two straight years. Is there something wrong with me for saying that? How about this one: "I deserve better than what they have to offer"?

I guess I dumped enough lavs in college to rid myself of SJS...

But, I hope you guys keep working to educate the starry-eyed newbies around here. Jets are cool and all, but we all deserve to be treated like the highly skilled professionals we are. We should also make sure that people understand that by taking that low-ball job they aren't only hurting their career and long-term earnings but they're hurting every other pilot who's stadards were just lowered.

I've read enough.

You're thinking of CRJ camping trips. If your day starts at 10 pm why the hell do you need a hotel for a 3-4 hour lay over, its done during daylight hours all of the time. Not that I am defending it, but seriously, would you like a back rub while you wait Mr. Hughes?

I am starting to think it should be mandatory for new hire to have had a real job in the real word before they come work as an airline pilot. Dig a ditch for 6 bucks an hour, stand a post, wait a table.

Fly for a ****ty cargo hauler, that will keep your money when you resign and sends releases out with crap like, "This should be enough fuel to make the flight". Room with your captain in a $35 a night hotel with double beds because they won't get you separate rooms. "That was the last straw by the way." Then get an airline job. You'll appreciate it more. As bad as this place screws with you, they've got nothing on Skyway.

Why isn't anyone up in arms about Great Lakes. These poor guys are working on the same rates as the late 1990's but no one is flaming them, nor should they.

To set the record straight as a B1900 FO, their is no sleeping on the aircraft. I will say this, I am twice the pilot for having flown it. There are no buttons to push, no FA's to bring you a coffee or open the doors for pax but its a great bird to fly. Its kind of funny when you’re in an interview with 30 other guys and the recruiter comes in saying they’re hiring for the 1900 and all of the young guys with bright shinny jets in their eyes groan. They can tell who not to hire right then. Saves a lot of time.

Everyone makes their own decisions for their own reasons. The pilots here during the last negotiations took a huge hit to get the freedom flying under the MESA seniority list and everyone should be grateful for it.

TSA is doing the same crap to their pilots and if your a GoJetter and get stuck renting a car because you can't get a ride, you have that coming.

The pay is not that different, a first year FO can make 25-30 if they cover a TDY or two. Outstation basing for the 1900s blows but that is the nature of EAS. Cost of living is a lot cheaper in the little towns though. Crash pads are a couple hundred bucks at most.

I am not promoting Mesa to up and comers by any means, in fact stay away. The interviews are sparse, we will benefit in the next round of contract talks. All I am saying is get the facts not BS from somebody throwing gas on the nearest flame.

As a final note you will not find a finer bunch of people then the pilots at Mesa, maybe its because we are all in this mess together but when a guy flying the same equipment for Colgan has the audacity to look down on you for flying at Mesa you just want to drop him on the moving walk, someday maybe…


Flame On!

Regarding the camping trips...

Most regionals require a minimum rest and a hotel on a stand-up, ie no camping trips. The reason for this is that true redeye operations are totally incompatible with the regional lifestyle...you normally end up back in domicile, which means you go home every day to try and sleep. Try doing five redeyes in a row, then two days off...when you attempt to switch cycles to enjoy your family you destroy yourself.

Major airline redeyes frequently layover somewhere else, and they work fewer days and get more days off. It's a lot easier to stay on cycle in a nice dark hotel room than to go home to your family and attempt to sleep.

I did both good (east coast w/ hotel) and bad (LAS camping trips) standups...there is no way that you can possibly have a life doing camping trips...I was walking zombie and by the time I got re-adjusted and started to feel good, it was time to go back to work...

Only a true night-shift person could thrive in that environment...I have never met one of those in the airline business. Most pilots have families, friends, and lives...most night-shift types do not.

STILL GROUNDED-- If you really want to have that "put some hair on your chest" attitude you should leave Mesa and go fly Part 135 freight, or go to Alaska and fly shorts down to mins with a full cargo bay and ice on the wings. Those guys are real men/women...anyone can sleep in the back of a 1900 for 3 to 4 hours after flying 12-14 hours--that's not the issue here--that issue was brought up on here as a reminder to people who might have other options to think twice. The more people are informed about stuff like that, the fewer resumes get sent to Mesa, the more leverage YOU will have when you renegotiate your contract....so you should actually THANK people on here who say bad stuff about your company...because they are truly on your side.

nicholasblonde,

Not playing both sides of the card, but if he flew for the Skyway I'm thinking of, he was flying a shorts for a 135 on-demand op.

I'm not trying to sound like I deserve a six-figure income and a personal attendant for coffee and "other" items. I've dug ditches (worked for a contractor), dumped lavs at an FBO, etc. I've worked hard for what I have, and most others in this profession have as well. They deserve not just better pay, but better treatment from their respective companies and should realize and demand this from not only their employers, but also from each other. Dozens of people are putting their lives in your hands every day to be delivered safely to their destination and you should be given an appropriate compensation and work rules.

Can I find this video anywhere? Also some have said PHX is a death trap why is that?? The PHX base is one of the only reasons for my why MESA is attractive.