You started out good, but it went downhill after that. It IS all about negotiating capital. What in our contract would you give up to have a firm 9 hours, actual rest? Are you absolutely sure that that's what you want? Have you considered all of the consequences of that action?

The real question is why should we spend that negotiating capital (and it would take quite a bit) to get this when the FARs are about to change anyway?

Stop the "capital swap" viewpoint. That is a mgmt tactic that they use with their own children. The point of the provision is for US. Many of the great trips (high block in short periods) run into rest issues. This provision allows pilots to have high efficiency trips and more days off with certain provisions (close/good hotel with reliable transportation, or none required).

The company cannot "impose" it, a better way to look at things is the scheduling committee can "incorporate" it ONLY if it helps and WE are OK with it.

Safety and a fatigue free operation is great as long as it doesn't get in the way of making ever more productive trips. Ugh. Some people would rather do 20 hour duty days if they could get one more day off a month, but the line has to be drawn somewhere and I think 8/9 hours of rest isn't sufficient.

I mean, really, 5 hours of sleep and 14+ hour duty days? How about instead we work normal hours and negotiate that we get paid like normal professionals for working normal hours.

We aren't talking about 8 hours flat here folks. We are talking 8:45 and a walk into the hotel. If you run the numbers that is many times more actual "behind the door time" than 9+ hours and a wait for the van and ride.

I'm sorry, I thought you were referring to the reducible to 8 in general, not the case by case waiving of it. That, I can see.

8 hours flat is rough. Years of that is the cause of my caffeine addiction.

Hence the post. The ability to be taken to 8 hours for scheduling necessity shows two things: contract weakness and schedule more important than safety.

And yours was better?

Absolutely not. But I hold the Mesaba contract language to a higher standard, considering how much it was talked up.

ALPA can miss a few loopholes now and then. They missed this one at Comair in 2005:

Delta promises 34 aircraft if Comair pilots take concessions.

Pay cut starts when first airplane arrives in 2005.

If no more airplanes show up, or if first airplane gets taken back, pilots go back to old contract... but not until 2007!!!

So yes, ALPA can negotiate some pretty big loopholes.