Regional Hiring Mins
 

I keep hearing rumors about guys getting hired well below posted mins. Such as:

Guy hired at ASA with 450TT
Guy hired at Skywest with 350TT
Guy hired at GoJet with 300TT


This seems contrary to everything on the websites for each airline. Is this just 'jetway legend' or is it possible in some instances that this may have happened? I have 350TT/75 ME. Should I publish my app on AirlineApps and see what happens or just wait until I am close to 1000TT/100ME?

Publish it and see what happens. A search will yield many similar topics.

What does one search for? Regional Hiring Mins only brought up my thread...

Would call BS on the above posted rumor "hire" with 350TT at SkyWest. But like posted, ya never know until ya get the "thanks but no thanks" email.

Good Luck Chief, but I think "the data is inaccurate". Last I heard ASA had pilots on furlough...:confused:

Also the APC Home page for the Regionals has pretty up to date minimums, but put your stuff in all they can say is no. Kinda like shagging the dolly's!

when were those guys hired? those times might have gotten you an interview before 2008, but i doubt theyre going that low right now

hiring
 

you should ask yourself if you are ready to complete a 121 program .If so start applying .Just be aware if you get hired at low time failing to complete a 121 program will make the next opportunity harder to come by .I have heard horror stories of low timers washing out and having a failure on their records which will follow you for 5 years because of PRIA reporting
Rumors of the majors going into a hiring spree in the next two years will mean regionals will need bodies badly.Add into the mix fewer people are getting their private pilots licenses.

SkyWest has a hard 1000TT. You might get around it if you know somebody or have 2 shuttle launches in your logbook. GoJet and Trans States hire at low time, but remember when you get hired with low time you are rolling the dice.

Training will be difficult and some people may judge you for having less than what they may consider appropriate as far as time goes and they may scrutinize you more closely because of that. Somebody that I know who had around 500TT got a single-engine missed with an unfavorable crosswind on his check ride, tough to keep within standards for somebody with 8 sessions in a jet sim. You do not want a failure on your PRIA records.

I was shocked to hear ASA may be furloughing I was called to interview last month but turned it down outright .

VERY true, a lot of airlines can forgive a "pink slip" on a PP ride or whatever, but a FAR 121 bust, can be difficult at best to get over. Feathered is dead nuts on too, it will follow you for five damn years. Best of luck, though...:confused:

I felt the same way when I had about 400 hours. I just wanted to get hired. I will tell you that when I got hired, I still felt uncomfortable with 1100 hours in the sim. You need to go in there and be Instrument proficient! And not just Instrument proficient but be able to do it on one engine with flashers going off in your face trying to remember call outs and profiles. Sometimes you cant teach that stuff its just experience. I know that with 400 hours I had know bussiness in an airline cockpit. I thought I did. I would have never passed with 400tt. I am not saying that it doesnt happen, but where I went it doesnt happen very often with out washing out. I know that now and it sucks for the lower time guys, but you do not want a 121 bust on your record. Keep flying and getting experience. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck.

FedEx has a new hire with two failed 121 line checks and two failed 121 PC's. It's not impossible to overcome.

A 400 hour guy/gal is just as cape able as a 1000+ hour guy/gal at handling the 121 training environment. You're either a good pilot or have the potential to learn and apply or you're just not cut out for it. It's all about what type of pilot you are. There are plenty of low time pilots that fly 10x better than guys with 5k+. I say if you know you can handle fast paced, tons of systems info, and simulator environments then apply! What's the worst they could say, no or not respond?

Usually the pilots you find on here that discourage low timers from applying more than likely had problems themselves.

This type of response pops up fairly often on this site.

9 times out of 10 the people who post that a 400 hour pilot has an exactly equal chance of getting through training as a 1000+ hour pilot..is a 400 hour pilot.

The other variant of this are the users who post that being a CFI does not build valuable skills since you are not always "hands on"...folks who are not CFIs post those ones.

Well if that's the only reason you turned it down you made a serious mistake because they're doing the hiring for ExpressJet. XJT is running at least 2 classes a month for the foreseeable future.

Why would you turn down an interview anyways? Even if you aren't planning on working there, the interview could be a valuable experience; and like KevinJH87 said, express is going to be hiring a lot of guys.

Well, considering I'm not a 400 hour pilot, been through plenty of 121 training, and flown with low and high time pilots, I can easily say yes that a 400 hour guy has the same chance as a 1000+ hour guy. 1000 hours in a 172 or even a twin piston doesn't mean you can handle a turbine or turboprop aircraft. Two totally different worlds. I've seen <500 hour guys fail but I've also seen >2000 hour guys fail. It's really all about what type of pilot you are, how you handle change and being able to use CRM and the guy that's sitting next to you.

You heard wrong. Champ.

GoJet was and has hired people with low time. I just meet a GoJet guy who was hired with 180 TT back in 2008. He started class with 200 TT. He has done fine since then. Another friend is in class right now at PSA and was hired with 300 TT. I think back in 07'-08' someone could have gone to a few regionals with 300-400 TT, but now it seems it's just a bit higher (Eagle @ 500 for example) unless you know someone on the inside. Although, this summer one may see a drop in hiring minimums.

Also, a good buddy who is at Southwest now was hired at ASA about 8 years ago with 250.2 and 13 multi into the Brasilia and was never a CFI. I think it's key to have willingness to learn and overcome obstacles plus a good attitude.

I have a timebuilding job and am questioning how much better it is going to make me at passing training. It has improved confidence in general, but I did some training in a full motion sim and I got my butt kicked, with all the other stuff going on in an airline cockpit. I think the only thing that is going to really help is training in a crj/turboprop simulator going over flows, checklist, and procedures that 121 cockpits use. Going through everything as quick as the airlines would want you would just have to accept what you were susposed to do, without thinking at all in the airplane, after you got on the line seemed like when you would begin to get really comfortable. Thats probably why its compared to drinking from a firehose.

oh yeah well i'm not your buddy, guy!

I have no idea who and why is spreading false information about ASA furloughing. Let me assure you that they are not. I'm with Expressjet (currently merging with ASA which will be soon operationg under one operating certificate with Expressjet name), and can confirm that ASA lost some flying on Delta side to Gojet. That caused ASA to pause hiring for their current operations (CRJ) and even contemplate COLAs (no furloughs) but nothing was officially confirmed or annouced yet. As far as I know, they have been understaffed for a while and there's a possibility the decrease of flying will just create a "correct" staffing situation. The time will show...

Expressjet (ERJ operations), on the other hand, is continuosly hiring and the interviews have been performed in Atlanta by ASA only (the one you just turned down). Since the beginning of 2011 Expressjet hired around 400 new pilots and upgraded about 250. The upgrade and newhire classes are being always annouced a month or two in advance and right now we're looking at Nov. and Dec. classes scheduled and filling up. The plans for the next year are even bigger but no official announcement is expected since nothing is certain in this business, especially during a merger of two big operations.

As far as the flow between CRJ and ERJ sides is concerned (I want to avoid using ASA/XJT terminology since they soon won't exist), I wouldn't expect too much movement in the neerest future. Eventhough we will be operating under one SOC (the "old" ASA's one with "Acey" callsign and ExpressJet name) the pilot groups will be operationg two different fleets, under two different contracts untill new bargaining agreement will have been reached and single seniority list created. Knowing the complexity of this process I wouldn't expect it to happen very quickly (USA/AWE being the horrifying extreme example).

I understand there's a lot of gossip circling around the forums so I hope this clarifies some of the questions about ASA/XJT. Feel free to add or correct my info!

As for the original topic of this thread, I would encourage anyone to gain some more experience instructing or some other 91 ops before applying at 121/135 ops. As mentioned above a failure of 121/135 training is not a joke and it not worth it. Make sure you gain some flying experience and confidence and have at least 700-1000 TT. I think the 500/50 is the bottom lowest minimum you can find in the industry anyway, and this doesn't guarantee an interview even at the most "desperate" regionals (at least yet). Many assume there'll be a lot of hiring throughout the industry in the following years so you'll have plenty of choices. Good luck!

Thanks for the info on ASA/XJ Barabek.
I only have 840/51, do you think XJ will consider me?(time built on my Cessna, I am not a CFI unfortunately) I believe a CRJ course may be beneficial, what do you think?

You may have a fair shot, just apply when you're ready. Posted mins are 700/100. There are plenty of people going through class right now with your times. The majority of people in my class over the summer had around 700 to 1000 TT (a couple had less, some had more), although all of them had either instructed or had 135/121 experience.

I wouldn't suggest spending the money for a CRJ course.

I think you got a fair shot. I wouldn't spend the money for any CRJ course. You'll learn all you need in training and I don't think they're looking for anything like this. Moreover we don't fly CRJs, so it wouldn't make too much difference. Usually the courses are expensive and are selling as a "door opener" to the airline interview, but I'm sure the most of the pilots who are in the airlines will agree with me that the interviewers don't care about those at all, and the product is an expensive gimmick making a lot of money for flight schools while it doesn't give you too much. You either know your stuff and how to fly instruments or not. The type of airplane doesn't matter too much. I did my interview with ASA in January and had a sim ride in CRJ200. I had over 3000 hours as CFI but never flew anything bigger then a PA-44. I had fun and had no problem with the ride eventhough it was far from perfect. They are not expecting any checklists, flows, callouts or anything of that sort. Just stick and rudder, scan, tracking radials, holding altitude, entering a hold, riding a glineslope. Simple basic instrument stuff - pitch and power, scan and situational awareness. They don't expect you to be perfect. You are evaluated by experienced instructors and what the guy was looking at my ride was seeing if I'm staying ahead of the plane, learning from mistakes and improving during the flight. It was 30 min long and basically my last 5 minutes were very different from my first 5 minutes. I think they also look at how nervous you are and if you can relax under pressure.

As far as the level of experience in my class (Feb 2011) we had very experienced guys (furlough airlines including captains, long time CFIs, 135 guys) mostly but there were a few fairly low time, young CFIs. I think they all had around 1000 tt but low on multi time (I know one guy told me he had to rent a Seminole for some 10 hours before his class started to reach 50 - the minimum you need for insurance purposes). I know they did some internships at Delta or Continental though (not sure which one). They all turned out to be great and had no problems in the training. Nowasays I heard they hire people with way less then 1000 hours but 50ME seems to be enforced.

I know the ASA interviewers or the selection committee is pretty tight on checkride failures and background stuff like DUIs, drug test failures, etc. I know personally 4 people with 3000-4000 hours, ATP, and even turbin PIC who didn't even get an interview because of 3 checkride failure from a distant past.

Just apply and good luck!
PM me if you have more qeustions.

regional mins
 

I had a guy who interviewed with me at a regional he paid for a crj type rating not a crj transition course . He thought he was a shoe in .He did not get the job . With 2-3 grand (spent on the transition course)you can get a nice chunk of multi time . Use that time and do some multi instrument approaches with another pilot Thats great experience for your future.

Funny I see these threads about hiring mins and I reflect on how I got hired at the regionals. Seems these days everyone thinks they can get their commercial and go fly for a part 121 carrier. I don't agree with the lower mins and I would have never changed that. Seems supply and demand drives that.

I was in the last class ever hired at comair with the mins 1200/200 back in 2006. They dropped the mins the week after I interviewed. I instructed for about 4 years. I interviewed at Eagle and Colgan at about 500 hrs. Didn't get either job at the time. Really and truly I wasn't ready. At 1200 hrs I was in better shape but not perfect. Still going from flying a seminole to a crj was quite a shock. And to top that I was thrown into JFK from day one. That was the best flying expierence of my life and I wish we were still up there. DTW sucks!!! C'mon 210kts 50 miles out!!!!

Being a flight instructor is more then just building hours. It's more about the decisions you make at any given time. It is something that follows you to the airlines and affects the decisions you make at any given time during a flight indirectly. I busted my hump to get the hours for the job that has turned into the worst job of my life. That's another story but I will say expierence is king!!! It affects your decision making.

So don't ask me if 250/50 plus some CRJ home study course is going help you in the airlines. It doesn't!!! Flight instructing shapes you in the long run in more ways then one. It becomes more apparent later on. Not a fan of the low mins!!! 4000 hrs later I have more time then most of the captains at some of my rivals. Only reason they are in the left seat is cause of seniority. Seen some poor decision making on a daily basis. I think the old days you spent about 10 years in the right seat before upgrading. Times have changed for sure.

This is what I have observed in my 5 short years at the airlines. Feel like I have been at comair for about 20 years after all the crap I have seen. So be patient and build some damn expierence. The jobs will always be there. It helps in the long run!!!! Not trying to be cocky just making an observation. I feel I have at least earned that right in my short airline career.

"You never stop learning in this profession....If you do you need to quit flying!!" Heard that from a family friend who flew for the origional piedmont then usair for 35 years. 30,000 plus hours. Words to live by and I take it seriously even though I truly hate going to work these days.

No one wants to work for anything anymore! They just feel entitled to it!!

I haven't heard those rumors about ASA or Skywest but GoJet did hire low timers a couple months back and have since raised their minimums. Pinnacle and Piedmont hired quite a few 300TT pilots over the summer but only out of particular 141 schools. Realistically the magic number seems to be 800/100 for most regionals.

Forget it.

Lets see.

Flight School (College) through Commercial and CFI and maybe CFII, I don’t recall.

Ultra Lights for 3 months at 8,200’ MSL.

Border town in Texas, Bug Dropping, Flight Instructing, Night Freight into Mexico (No US laws broken) – single engine.

One day, $395, Multi Engine rating with L. E. Clark in Ponder, TX, PA-23, Apache.

Lots of PA-31 Navajo time in Mexico – Thank God nothing went seriously awry for a couple of hundred hours.

Pilot Services – single & multi.

Night Freight into the US (poor judgement, learned from that, statute of limitations expired) – single and multi – single pilot.

Left in a hurry.

Night Freight (the politically correct kind with boxes) in a PA-31 (part 135) – single pilot. Again, thank God nothing went seriously awry for awhile.

King-Air -90 A, B and E, -200, Cheyenne II, Air Ambulance and Charter (part 135) – single pilot.

Lear 24 & 25 Air Ambulance and Charter (part 135) – Co-Pilot.

Lear 35 & G-100 world wide Charter (part 135) – Captain (DO and Chief Pilot).

Citation I, II, Hawker 400 fan, Westwind I (part 135) – Captain (Chief Pilot, Director of Training, Check Airman).

Part 121 job (737) at age 33 with 5 type ratings – First Officer for 5 months.

Upgrade to Captain.

Line and Sim Check Airman 3 months later (I did Captain OE for the guy one number junior to me) for 8 years.

Flight Training Manager for a year.

Back to Line Check Airman, for a year and a half I didn't fly with anyone that had more than 40 hours in their seat.

I also served as Training Committee Chair, Safety Committee Chair, Representation Chair, System Board Chair and on the E-Board throughout that time for our union.

Based on the above, I feel I’m qualified in making the statement, A 400 hour pilot (let alone a 250 hour pilot) doesn’t remotely compare to a 3,000 to 5,000 hour pilot.

I must agree that the quality of flight time is very important. I rode support for a re-check (for their job) of a 12,000 hour FO that stalled the airplane on a V1 cut. When we hit the ground, the pilot turned to me and asked, "Why was it going down, I was pulling back?" That pilot had 95% of their time in a two pilot, hard ball, turbine twin but the majority of that time was day VMC.

I also had to fail a pilot that had been a 15+ year, 121, jet, Captain in the airplane (737) he'd been flying for probably as long as I had been in aviation. He had failed 2 upgrade rides and on his check for going back to FO, he initiated a RTO - from the right seat (Captain flying) - for an engine fire above V1 among other problems.

I was a 400 hour pilot and I remember how little I knew, my one advantage was that I didn’t believe I could be killed. I was a 1,000 pilot, still didn’t know a lot.

Now at 15,000+, I’m still learning and many of those lessons come from pilots with less time than I have.

A single pilot, hard ball, piston twin pilot with less than 1,500 hours has no business in an 121 jet operation. I’m sure that will be an unpopular statement, but, what the heck, it’s just my opinion….

Usmc-sgt, first of all I love the name, I was a sgt in the corps myself. Second, I have to disagree. I was hired with 250 hrs at a 121 operation and didn't have much problem passing, and haven't had problems ( knock on wood) the 4 years I've been here. We had guys with the 1000+ hours they got from being a CFI, and a lot of them washed out. Ur either ready or not, studying and focusing on situation at hand is how you pass. The cfi's that washed out had various reasons but most didn't know how to work in a 2 man cockpit, they tried to run the show and they got overloaded. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being a CFI but u could have 3000 hours in a c-172 but that doesnt mean your a shoe-in when u get to the airlines. I'm sure u know, it's a whole different beast

Well Said.

Yeah that 400hr vs 1000+ hr pilot is a pretty idiotic argument. Now I agree that a pilot that shouldn't be a pilot at 1000+ is no better than he is at 400 hours. It's just common sense. Most pilots use their experience to make themselves better pilots. Hence why you are usually a better pilot after a 600 hr difference. If you are pilot good enough to hang in the 121 world and do so with skill, then you will be even BETTER after 600 hrs. Simple concept. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to be challenging.

Agreed!

You mean a 250 hour guy can make it through a 121 training environment? That's impossible! But wait, here you sit living proof that it can happen. It's the person that makes a pilot.

Just because someone has a ton of time under their belt doesn't mean they know how to fly a plane, or should I say, shouldn't be flying a plane.

Time and mistakes, that one learns from, are (most generally) what makes the difference between 250 hours and 1,000, 3,000, 5,000 and on hours.

When I sign a new Captain off, I give each of them the same advice. That is, "Unless you create an environment in your cockpit that the FO feels comfortable to offer suggestions and share information, you are done learning. This is a bad time for you to stop learning."

That being said, it blows my mind when a Captain calls their FO a "Co-Captain."

The industry has taken away much of the Captains ability or authority to make decisions on their own, but that's no excuse to turf decisions onto Dispatch or Maintenance that a Captain, with their FO's input, should be making on their own.

I've heard pilots say, "Why should I make a decision that might get me in trouble when I can just send it over to Dispatch, SOC or Maintenance Control (or God forbid, the Gate Agent)." IMO, that's what a Captain gets paid for, that and preparing their FO for becoming a good Captain.

As far as the back goes, I'm fortunate to fly with very experienced F/A's, so I generally go with and support their assessment of passenger behavior, cabin conditions or problems.

"Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment."

"Experience is not what happens to a man. It is what a man does with what happens to him. "

Well said!

Great rant, but I still disagree. Being a CFI does not mean squat. You can have 1000 hours and 50 to 100ish multi, and gone many paths. You could have that time in a cub flying banners, which teaches you THAT AIRSPEED IS LIFE!!!! You could have that time flying skydivers, with more takeoffs/landing and experience with ATC then you know what do with in 1000 hours, or you could do surveying, flying all over America with some IFR and a good idea of what a hotel room feels like.

Sitting next to someone tell them what to do, letting them know whats a 'great job' they are doing and grabbing the plane when you get scared............sounds like the roots of everyone's least favorite captain.

Flight schools do not teach you how to truly decide if a plane is safe, nor put any pressure on not taking one that might be legal and safe but someone might just turn down. Do not allow you to get good radio skills, nor FLY THE PLANE YOURSELF ALL THE TIME!! Do not put a CFI on a pedestal. I would take 1000 hours of banner towing and night cargo in a 206 to a CFI in a Seminole ANY DAY.

Well said sir.....this is the thing, everyone is going to think the way they did it was the right way. Those who instructed are going to think that's the best way and they'll try to defend that. Same goes for how everyone else got their time.... I think a lot of it comes down to jealousy, pilots who needed 2000 hrs to get hired at a regional now see guys with 250 and they feel a little resentment...truth is I don't care who u are, if airlines back in the day were hiring with 250 hrs they would b taking the job. I guess I get a little edgy when I hear people say in so many words that they are better pilots cause they instructed.

I agree, to a point. I had students teach me that airspeed was life (high speed and low speed) in 172's, corporate jets and airliners. I had the same "pucker" response in all aircraft.

I AM a better pilot because I instructed. Until you can teach something, you don't really know it. Whether it's a sim training event, a discipline or termination event a counseling event or whatever, you learn a lot when it isn't about you. Someone that hasn't instructed won't ever get it. Your job is to communicate to the best of your abilities what the student needs to know. Again, I'm talking 172, Citation, 737 or beyond. I believe I'm an excellent communicator, but I have had students I couldn't reach, I turned them over to another IP. I have friends that are excellent communicators that have had to turn students over to me.

It's not that anyone is better than another, it's just some people respond better to one person than the other.

I didn't do much part 91 instructing, most of mine has been 121 and, to a lessor degree part 135 in jets. I actually picked up a Fed, he watched me train myself in a Citation I, we landed, took off and I gave myself a 135 checkride, that's how I became a CAM on the CE-500.

I've flown airliner aircraft where the trainee or even line pilot tried to do a crosswind landing by touching down on the upwind wheel that I'm sure put my engine within millimeters of the asphalt. I've had pilots flare 100 feet too early and been amazed that we didn't tear the tail off. (I so miss the Boeing, the friggin Airbus is a set up for failure with a weak pilot). I'm not into taking the aircraft and the Bus doesn't let me know what the other guy is thinking or doing.

What I have learned is that while I like to fly, I love to teach. There's no better feeling than showing up with a first day new hire and saying, "Let's go have fun" and putting them at ease, which is the state in which they will learn the most.

I will remember forever the experiences I've had training pilots I like to be Captains, pilots that have been FO's for 15 years or so and FINALLY get to be Captain. I really like it when they say, "I'm a bit nervous about this." My standard response is, "That's great, it shows you have a clear understanding of the situation."

When I did my Captain OE, my Check Airman was one of the best pilots I have ever flown with and a true Gentleman, ex-Frontier - High line Twin Otters, Convair, DC-3, 737, ex-CAL, then new Frontier. I told him I thought I might be sick, he said lets go out and see how you feel after 2 legs. It was only nerves, I was fine because he was such a wonderful man (John Landwehr from Boulder, if anyone knows him).

John tried to teach me things about energy management and other finer points of being a professional aviator, bearing in mind that I had 5 jet types and 6,000 hours.

Some of his points I understood, some of the things he said, I had to respond, "I know you're trying to teach me something important but I'm trying to fly straight and level in the pattern and land successfully, I may understand your points at sometime in my career, but right now I'm maxed out." He understood. I wish I could fly with him today.

The bottom line, I was born 20 years too late. I'm intensely jealous of the pilots that got to be airline Captains when it meant something. Yeah, we crashed a little more often but I'd rather that than what we have now.

If I could have had the life that the FAA administrator, Randy Babbitt, had I'd be happy. And yes, I've had the privilege of hearing his stories first hand.