Airline Pilot Central Forums - RAH: "The start of a new direction..."

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I can't believe you used the word "antics" instead of "shenanigans", I thought "shenanigans" was the only IBT approved word to describe such events.

Seeing as I don't represent, or defend the IBT, I don't care what words they use or approve of.

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The IBT made their bed and the line pilots, many of which are good guys, have been forced to live with the relationship that the IBT destroyed with Management.

So if someone makes you mad, it's then OK to disregard contractual language and crap all over your employees? To make out RAH's actions to be IBT's fault is the dumbest thing I've seen posted here in a long time, and that says a lot!

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It's too bad and prior to the whole merger fiasco, every RAH pilot I knew hated the IBT, now you've been forced, by pride, to defend that which you once despised.

No, we just changed exco's, locals, and structures. It's not the same people, so the ones we hated are gone.

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If the IBT hadn't alienated RAH Management years ago, you might have a 100 seat 190.

Yes, the IBT FORCED the company to ignore the CBA and force us to fly 190's for 170 rates. Come on! This is BS and you know it. They're snakes in the grass. They've been abusing us and lying at every turn for over a decade now and you have the gall to blame the IBT for it. It's the chicken and the egg. RAH has the relationship it does with it's pilots because of their own actions. IBT's attitude with management is in response to our past experiences with Bedford and Co. I could list numerous examples of lies we have caught him in with our group, "we've lost the United contract and it's all the pilots' fault," (amazingly a few days after our contact signing the United contract is announced) "we're losing money and can't afford what the pilots are asking for," (this before our last contract when they were privately held. A few months later in the IPO filings we discover they were making record profits the whole time!). Oh, here's a good one, "We have no intention of integrating the pilot groups of Frontier and Republic, if you all will just sign this LOA so we can have the scope to fly 190's on their cert." (within months he's integrated the companies to the point that NMB finds them a STS) Do you think he's so stupid he didn't know having one website, one corporate office, one HR department, would lead to this? He knew our scope required it and still told you all he wasn't going to merge us, making him either in breach of contract with us (and a liar), or a straight faced liar to you all, or both.

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RAH Management and Frontier's interests ARE aligned. We both want a successful company and we're willing to help Management achieve their goal as we wish to be successful as well.

Management's goal is to make the absolute most profit possible. And when it's necessary to cut their costs via your pay to increase that profit, they'll screw you over and lie to your face to make it happen. They've done it in the past. A leopard can't change his spots.

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It wasn't that our representation was so skilled at negotiations (although they were - and are) it's the fact that we were willing to discuss and negotiate with Management in a realistic manner. FAPA couldn't have achieved what they did by themselves, we did it by establishing a line of communication, LISTENING and finding a mutually agreeable solution. Because we listened and didn't beat a fake drum or threaten Management, Management also listened to us.

I'm curious. For someone who hasn't been involved in any of our negotiations with the company, what qualifies you to comment on how they've negotiated?

They've been to the table. They've listened. What they heard was, "We're not going to negotiate a new CBA, just make slight changes in the current one," and, "The most we can give you is a 2% increase for your FO's." So what's your mutually agreeable solution to that, hotshot? How do negotiate and listen when the company draws a line in the sand and says status quo?

Bryan has stated that he doesn't believe he's gotten the best deal possible until he's taken negotiations right up to the strike vote. And they've refused to negotiate, right up to that point, again. Just like last time. I'll be curious to see how much better the almighty FAPA negotiators do if they ever get to negotiate a new CBA. Although at your current rate, it's in the company's best interest for you to keep your current contract for infinity, so I'm sure you'll continue to extend it out again with concessions to help Bryan finance the other half of his indoor court.

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Your (the IBT) model of interacting with Management is outdated, not suited for this profession (why does the IBT not represent a single Major profitable passenger carrier) and yet you cling to it because it's all you know and the IBT has brow beaten you into believing their way is the only way (think Stockholm syndrome.)

I'm betting my career that you're wrong about Bryan. Again, our relationship with him and his group is completely different than the low brow, organized mob mentality that the IBT has established.

Yes it's so "low brow" to ask for industry standards like trip and duty rigs, scope protection, and raises for our FO's past four years, all at industry average rates. To what low brow thuggery do you refer? What exactly has the IBT done that's so outdated and low brow? Face it, the only thing that the IBT has done that you dislike is to refuse to bend over and accept the staple job that FAPA demanded with no budging, and then repeatedly whip you like an ugly stepchild in front of the mediator.

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I believe the Frontier employee group is infinitely more qualified to assess and comment on the F9 management team in place prior to the transaction than any of the RAH pilots or the IBT "leadership." We had a couple of decent Managers, we had a lot of deadwood that needed to go years ago.

I can't believe you'll say, "Remember WE bought YOU out of BK" but don't recognize that our leadership placed us in a position that Chapter 11 was our only choice.

You cannot quote me EVER saying that. I cringe when I read others saying it. It's irrelevant in a list merger. I do concede that management made some mistakes to end up in BK. However, there were several talented people who once they had the opportunity to work with the reverend and co jumped ship. That speaks volumes.

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Our new Director of HR is somewhere between 10 and 50 times more qualified and intelligent than our old VP of HR. Sean did what he could with the mess he'd been handed but promoted an idiot to CFO and hangs his hat on him today. Sean DID fire Greg Aretakis, which was the right thing to do, but he made several errors along the way as well.

Who would you say was the most "talented and honest" member of Frontier's Management that left once Frontier was acquired?

Sean, without question.