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Old 02-01-2012 | 01:48 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Omnivorous
Hello, everyone. I've been reading the forum for a couple years but have never posted. Figured it's time to break the silence and present the issue that so many of you guys and gals have dealt with in the past.

I'm a flight instructor a 141 associated with a university in the Midwest, finishing my degree this May. I've got my apps in with several regionals and meet the mins for XJT, Trans States and ...Eagle. 700TT, 60ME, CFI, CFII, MEI. I've got several friends at Eagle and Pinnacle as well as XJT who went through the same program, served their time instructing, etc.

What advice do you have for someone in my shoes? I have not received any interview offers (probably because I'm not available until May ...graduation, blah blah bah, not to mention the low time) but hope to soon.

Any words of wisdom?
I was in a similar situation to you almost 3 years ago. I graduated from a midwestern university with all my certificates, ratings and a BS degree and hiring was dry as the Sahara. Even my own school, which hired its own normally could only find a part time position for me getting only a few hours a week. Here's the thing: 2 years later I was getting calls from regionals and ultimately hired.

The thing is, this industry changes SO violently. Just a few years prior to that, airlines were hiring with simply wet commercials. Yet right now, things are kinda slow. Not too many regionals hiring anymore. I think XJet and Skywest may be doing some hiring but that too is slowing down. Give it another year or so and you will be working for an airline. I would bet a bottle of beer on it.

So, from someone who was in your situation here is my advice: Get the multi-engine time above all else and avoid questionable sources (SIC in a king air that doesnt require an SIC, safety piloting, back seat MEI time, etc). When the airlines start hiring again, and they will, most of the time multi-engine time is the limiter. Especially if you have a CFI, you'll probably have over 1000 hours, but that doesnt matter if you only have 60 hours multi. So again, get that multi-engine time.

Also, network. It's not to useful to get an airline job since a lot of times airline jobs are "Do you meet the mins? Not too many busted checkrides/skeletons in the closet? Can someone spend 4 days with you? HIRED" (Yes, oversimplified but hey...). Networking is needed to break into corporate or other part 91 flying.

I will counter some advice given earlier: do NOT jump at the first airline that offers you a job without some serious thinking. What is reserve like? Where are their bases? How is the commute if you must commute (which I would advice NOT too)? What is morale like at the company?

You can generally expect pay to be around the same for the first year at most places. To me, pay was one of the LEAST important things. QOL was WAY more important to me: picking an airline that had a base I was likely to get where I lived.

Well, thats all I got for you now. Take it all with a grain of salt because my motives are likely to be different than yours.

Hang in there. It's a ride.

Edit: one more piece of advice: Limit our time here on APC. The negativity abounds (But thats what makes APC, APC).
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Old 02-01-2012 | 01:49 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by WstCstCmtr
13k/40 is 325hr. Seems high.

Edit: Confirmed. Just googled 'rent piper seneca' Link 1 is 248/hr wet.

I bet you could get an older 310 or a travel air for cheaper... still going to be expensive... just saying.
I'll do you one better: a Piper Geronimo for $195/hr wet
just give me a $5200 finders fee and we'll call it even
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Old 02-02-2012 | 08:07 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by snippercr
I was in a similar situation to you almost 3 years ago. I graduated from a midwestern university with all my certificates, ratings and a BS degree and hiring was dry as the Sahara. Even my own school, which hired its own normally could only find a part time position for me getting only a few hours a week. Here's the thing: 2 years later I was getting calls from regionals and ultimately hired.

The thing is, this industry changes SO violently. Just a few years prior to that, airlines were hiring with simply wet commercials. Yet right now, things are kinda slow. Not too many regionals hiring anymore. I think XJet and Skywest may be doing some hiring but that too is slowing down. Give it another year or so and you will be working for an airline. I would bet a bottle of beer on it.

So, from someone who was in your situation here is my advice: Get the multi-engine time above all else and avoid questionable sources (SIC in a king air that doesnt require an SIC, safety piloting, back seat MEI time, etc). When the airlines start hiring again, and they will, most of the time multi-engine time is the limiter. Especially if you have a CFI, you'll probably have over 1000 hours, but that doesnt matter if you only have 60 hours multi. So again, get that multi-engine time.

Also, network. It's not to useful to get an airline job since a lot of times airline jobs are "Do you meet the mins? Not too many busted checkrides/skeletons in the closet? Can someone spend 4 days with you? HIRED" (Yes, oversimplified but hey...). Networking is needed to break into corporate or other part 91 flying.

I will counter some advice given earlier: do NOT jump at the first airline that offers you a job without some serious thinking. What is reserve like? Where are their bases? How is the commute if you must commute (which I would advice NOT too)? What is morale like at the company?

You can generally expect pay to be around the same for the first year at most places. To me, pay was one of the LEAST important things. QOL was WAY more important to me: picking an airline that had a base I was likely to get where I lived.

Well, thats all I got for you now. Take it all with a grain of salt because my motives are likely to be different than yours.

Hang in there. It's a ride.

Edit: one more piece of advice: Limit our time here on APC. The negativity abounds (But thats what makes APC, APC).
Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it. I'm definitely hangin' in and not doing too poorly. Fortunately, my own planning allowed me to get the CFI job and all of my instructor ratings while still an undergraduate, allowing me to build most of my time by my graduation. I don't consider myself in too bad of a position at all! I will say that I'm ready for that next step, however. Thanks again for taking the time to write your information down!
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Old 02-03-2012 | 05:15 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Omnivorous
I will say that I'm ready for that next step
Just out of curiosity, why exactly do you feel you're ready for the next step? I would strongly urge you to get 1000tt and min 100multi. I know that may seem like a lot now, but believe me it isn't. There are many on here who cfi'd well into 1000hrs before getting a crack. With the unfortunate news of AMR/Eagle, you may soon find yourself applying with guys that have 3x the time you have now. Just something to think about.
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Old 02-03-2012 | 05:25 PM
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Have you checked into volunteering with an Angel flight type organization to get some ME time? There's a few different organizations out there, not sure where you live.
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Old 02-03-2012 | 06:18 PM
  #46  
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Do your future captains a favor a get some real PIC time before you head to the regionals. By real PIC time I mean where someone gives you the keys to an airplane and has you fly it somewhere. I can always tell when an FO I fly with has flown real world PIC vs. just instructing. Don't get me wrong, I've flown with lots FOs who have just a CFI background and they do fine for the most part. But FOs who have other kinds of flying under their belt do much better.
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Old 02-03-2012 | 08:03 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by FR8DOG71
Do your future captains a favor a get some real PIC time before you head to the regionals. By real PIC time I mean where someone gives you the keys to an airplane and has you fly it somewhere. I can always tell when an FO I fly with has flown real world PIC vs. just instructing. Don't get me wrong, I've flown with lots FOs who have just a CFI background and they do fine for the most part. But FOs who have other kinds of flying under their belt do much better.
Kind of a blanket statement, don't you think?
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Old 02-13-2012 | 12:41 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Luv2Rotate
Just out of curiosity, why exactly do you feel you're ready for the next step? I would strongly urge you to get 1000tt and min 100multi. I know that may seem like a lot now, but believe me it isn't. There are many on here who cfi'd well into 1000hrs before getting a crack. With the unfortunate news of AMR/Eagle, you may soon find yourself applying with guys that have 3x the time you have now. Just something to think about.
I really enjoy my job now but I've done it for a year (the blink of an eye to some on here, I know) and I'm excited at the prospect of moving on to a position outside of the flight training realm. I'll probably be at 1000tt by the end of August or September at the rate I'm going now. The ME is the hard part...as everyone knows. That's what I'm digging hard for.
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Old 02-13-2012 | 12:43 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by C152PIC
Have you checked into volunteering with an Angel flight type organization to get some ME time? There's a few different organizations out there, not sure where you live.
Heart of the midwest. I haven't looked into that at all. Any more information there?
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Old 02-13-2012 | 02:32 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Luv2Rotate

I would strongly urge you to get 1000tt and min 100multi. I know that may seem like a lot now, but believe me it isn't. There are many on here who cfi'd well into 1000hrs before getting a crack.
You have two options: go someplace where an MEI is needed (there are plenty) and build the time for free, or split the time in a $200/hr semihole with someone also looking to build time. But if you do this, do it right - under the hood or IMC, shooting approaches and limit any autopilot. Make the last couple hundred hours count; it will be worth it.
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