Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1132575)

AE doesn't own any flying. It's not yours, nor is it mainlines. I don't even know why we have unions anymore. There's little unity remaining in this profession. Sad indeed. :(

Originally Posted by squawkoff (Post 1132576)

If Eagle is going away, why let 119 pilots that were on the ATR sit around with pay until April to incur the cost of training to move to other equipment? Granted that could always change since this is the first half of Feb but I would think they would have furloughed immediately (other than the DEC 5th class.) I really expected AMR to try and furlough out of seniority order so they could avoid the big training bubble. IMO they have bigger plans for Eagle. What they are none of us know. Only time will tell.

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1132598)

I think AMR doesn't want to lose market share during Chapter 11. Thus, they want to renegotiate short-term leases on the Embraer fleet and make a smooth replacement process once they exit. How many and where those replacements go, is the question.

In the mean time, Eagle doesn't yet know the scope (pun intended) of its future or the schedule of replacement. We'll have to wait a bit longer to get some answers.

Originally Posted by squawkoff (Post 1132610)

Totally agree but I would think if that is their intention they would do something to indicate that. I have no idea the cost to train a CA and FO on the EMJ but would think they would try to avoid that cost. Then again, this AMR we're talking about.

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1132618)

I've heard most initial training events like sims, checkrides and IOE have stopped while Eagle waits to find out its future.

Originally Posted by squawkoff (Post 1132633)

I'm scheduled to start training on 2 April. Nice vacation. Speaking of vacation. I just received an HI6 stating my vacation that they assigned me has been cancelled. Still trying to find out why. I was displaced and there is no vacation blocks open after June on the EMJ. I'm slated to finish training in July. Essentialy I'm on vacation now and hope they don't try and make me take it prior to April since I'm waiting with pay for April. We'll see.

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1132595)

Your saying sveral regionals feeding AA ?

That I could see.

Originally Posted by DashDriverYV (Post 1132656)

At least four in each hub. No service interruption and you don't have to deal with a pesky labor relations problem. The product will go to Sh1t though but will be cheap. I'm sure my former company is salivating at the chance to undercut the cost to get a foot in the door.
I can also see the full half of AA's flying be done by codeshare partners.

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1132654)

When I was at Eagle, they only had the capabilty to see about 3 inches in front of their face. 4/2 is about 7 weeks from now and they still have time to alter that schedule or not. Prolly not making any moves one way or the other till then end of February or at least closer to that. If they keep all or most of the Embraers for now until replaced in 6-12 months, then you'd probably still train.

IIRC, once you are awarded training to a new status, you lose your vacation and must rebid for scraps. If they for some reason DO cancel your training, they should re-award you your original vacation. Best of luck...........

Originally Posted by squawkoff (Post 1132692)

But my vacation and training don't conflict. I am supposed to be out of training in July and my vacation was assigned to me in December.

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1132695)

Doesn't matter. Unless they've changed it, you re-bid according to your new status seniority for whatever is left over (or they assign you something or you carry over). It's why senior F/O's who get summer vacations can't become junior reserve captains and keep that senior vacation slot. Otherwise all the formerly senior F/O's who've kept their summer vacations would leave the company with no junior reserve captains during the heavy summer months when the senior captains are all on vacation and when people are calling in sick more often to boot.

It's the price of upgrade and the concept of seniority.

Originally Posted by CaptainCarl (Post 1132402)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ksYQN2j4N3...rious-face.jpg

Yo, are you serious, bro?

Originally Posted by CaptainCarl (Post 1132429)

I'm already out, hesitant. Why don't you just run back along to looking for a flight instructor's job and misspelling words, hmmkay?

Originally Posted by CaptainCarl (Post 1132431)

The hard way. Twice. If I ever get back into the airlines, I'll have the biggest hard on for scope you ever did see. And I'm sure I won't be alone.

Originally Posted by hesitant (Post 1132780)

What I do is none of your business CaptainCarl. If you are allready out, why don't you run along and stop calling yourself Captain?

Originally Posted by XJT Pilot (Post 1132770)

Dam straight! Dude, I just did my taxes and I'm the guy Obama wants to get at so hell if im going anywhere or doing anything that knocks me out of that bracket, like going to mainline. I'm here because mainline didnt have the forsight to keep all jet flying within there ranks so now I'm gona take advantage of there short sightedness(really have no choice). As a matter of fact [I] just broke ground on my vacation home so if you think i'm gona start over under you butt and make 35 a year good luck there. There gona have to drag me out kicking and screaming. Take this with jest my fine fellow I'm in a situation I never planed on and along with 3000 other guys in my shoes I prob speak for allot, but since I'm here I'm gona make the most of it.

So don't expect to see me carrying any signs asking for the regional to go away unless u give me date of hire. My 12000 hours came at allot of pain(money) and sacrifice now its my time to enjoy and I've been lucky never been booted to the street. I have a ten year contract ahead of me less a major BK I'm siting pretty, you can have the 787 and the 16 hour flights. I enjoy my flights up and down the Atlantic coast and being home. If a BK happens so be it. I would have to start at the bottom anyway so why make it happen sooner rather then latter?

Originally Posted by CaptainCarl (Post 1132823)

Seriously though, how the hell did you manage to rack up 12,000 hours and never make it into the Majors? Too scared to make the jump?

Originally Posted by Peeinginthesink (Post 1132861)

It will be Compass flying the new planes for AA, and I'd wager there will be 190s in a 2-class, 88-seat configuration involved. I hope for all involved that I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by hesitant

Thanks for wishing me luck on my job hunt. I am going to need it. My plan is to stick it out and and not quit like you did.
Why don't we stop arguing. I will try to be nicer if you can try to be smarter.

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 1132672)

Too many IMHO.....at least in EVERY hub. I think AMR will get a lot of what they want on scope. There will be more RJ's and larger RJ's and multiple carriers, but 4 in each hub seems too many. How many more and how larger will be the question. Not every regional will operate in every hub and I'm also betting turboprops like the Q400 are somewhere in the mix. If AMR does indeed grow AA as well as they are promising, then RJ jobs would go to the pilot group that bids/flies them. But a low-bidder/whipsaw scenario makes for a lousy career. The key for us AT THE VERY LEAST, is to ensure that if RJ growth DOES come at the expense of mainline jobs (like the past), then those who lose jobs get protections by virtue of captains positions on the RJ's. That is at the very LEAST.

If it's AMR's intent to simply outsource to that degree, there's nothing left to save or fight for, for the bottom half of the AA list. Any deal like that simply will result in the bottom half recognizing that (along with many captains who'd become F/O's.......potentially for the remainder of their careers, considering their age), that a vote on any such TA would be no by the majority forcing AMR to proceed with their "plan" with their pilots under a contentious work order and its resulting bedlam. At that point, I think their reorganization plan would fail due to uncertainty and lack of confidence and merger/fragmentation would occur quicker. Considering the history of this company and management, I simply cannot and will not give any blind trust to promises and any "yes" vote on a TA will have to give me confidence in job security. I'll vote no without that, the cos
equences be damned.

Originally Posted by squawkoff (Post 1132830)

I really believe you CaptainCarl when you say you haven't been in the industry for quite a while after you make a statement like that.

Originally Posted by hesitant (Post 1132871)

:confused:
:confused:Sorry, what do you mean Compass flying?

Originally Posted by flysooner9 (Post 1132139)

well fly them if we take concessions.

Originally Posted by flysooner9 (Post 1132221)

not saying we SHOULD take concessions, just saying that well most likely be offered the chance to get all the replacement aircraft if we give them what they want. The question is how much will they want. If its just a couple dollars difference then its worth it. Much more then that will be bad IMO. I really don't see them cutting FO's that much. Its our senior captains that will get whacked, since the company will be even more happy if the cuts force some of those senior guys to move on.

Originally Posted by CANAM (Post 1132773)

Mainline pay for mainline equiptment! If you agree to fly these aircraft for regional wages, you're doing serious damage to your own career progression.

Originally Posted by Peeinginthesink (Post 1132861)

It will be Compass flying the new planes for AA, and I'd wager there will be 190s in a 2-class, 88-seat configuration involved. I hope for all involved that I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1133350)

Come on man. Do you really want to take concessions in order to fly a "bigger" airplane? This is what is killing the industry. I know I'm going to be flamed becasue I fly the 170 but I didn't take concessions to do it and in fact if I don't get a raise here soon I will set the brake and walk off. Lets stop the bleeding.

Originally Posted by galaxy flyer (Post 1133357)

[/I]

CANAM
And what if the judge grants AA request and turns it into regional pay for mainline equipment? Will the APA demand the E190s go to AE? Will AE refuse to fly them?

Just askin'

Originally Posted by CANAM (Post 1133494)

Semantics semanitcs. What if the judge forces AE to fly 777s? What if she makes AE fly for free?! At the end of the day, I'm assuming AE's MEC would have to negotiate a payscale. The AE MEC should walk away, but they never do. This will only further slow the career progression of pilots by making them fly larger planes for less and less money.

Put it this way, if you create a time machine, go back in time. All the way back to 1990. Find the nearest mainline pilot and tell him/her that very soon regionals will be flying jets. The pilot would laugh. When you told him/her they'd be 76-99 seat jets, he/she would litterally die.

Originally Posted by flysooner9 (Post 1133454)

Think you dont understand our situation here. It's not about flying "bigger" airplanes, its about having planes to fly period. Our EMB135/140 fleet and maybe even some of our 145's will be going away. They will be replaced by E175's most likely. So it wouldn't be taking concessions to just fly "bigger" planes. It would be taking concessions to have a job period.

Originally Posted by CANAM (Post 1133494)

Semantics semanitcs. What if the judge forces AE to fly 777s? What if she makes AE fly for free?! At the end of the day, I'm assuming AE's MEC would have to negotiate a payscale. The AE MEC should walk away, but they never do. This will only further slow the career progression of pilots by making them fly larger planes for less and less money.

Put it this way, if you create a time machine, go back in time. All the way back to 1990. Find the nearest mainline pilot and tell him/her that very soon regionals will be flying jets. The pilot would laugh. When you told him/her they'd be 76-99 seat jets, he/she would litterally die.

Originally Posted by B767 (Post 1133570)

Thank you. That did help. However, you said SKW does not use money from DAL to finance UAL flying or aircraft. Do you know this as fact or just assuming? Is it in a contract somewhere? Cause I'm pretty sure SKW paid UAL quite a handsome amount of money to keep them, UAL (if i remember right...$80 mil or was that another airline?) afloat. Was that $80 mil all generated from UAL alone? Dead serious question. Not trying to pick a fight or anything.

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1133582)

You are kind of bluring lines together here yes back in the early 2000's many regionals did give there Legacy partners money and in return they got more flying. I can't remember amounts though, but Republic did this as well with US, that is how we got started in the 170 bussiness. In return for cash US basically gave us Mid Atlantic.

The majors sign a contract and as long as that contract is complied with the Legacy has to pay the regional. Once the regional gets the money it is theirs, they can use it however they like. DL does not care if SKW uses its money to buy new aircraft for UA becasue the contract is in compliance. If DL wanted new aircraft they would renegotiate with SKW and a deal would be hammered out and SKW would go buy airplanes for them.

I'm not sure if I'm getting my point across but it is a bussiness with contracts.

Anyways if you need more PM me were kind of veering off of the thread topic here.

Originally Posted by What (Post 1133588)

You aren't veering of topic to much because this could play out at AMR, they could just have RAH or SKW finance the aircraft to feed AMR with! Not starting any rumors but it's a possibility!

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 1133350)

Wont happen. US airways has 2 class 190's and they have 99 seats with 12, I think, first class. In order to get a 190 down to 88 seats you would have to remove atleast three rows of seats and I don't think AA would want that much first class capacity on a 88 seat jet, it would destroy any possibility of that aircraft making any money.

Originally Posted by buddies8 (Post 1133616)

AA does not care about service. And dont go by what people say, 85% of AE's cancellations are at the request of AA. Baggage mishandling at AE originates at AA but they pass the buck foe better numbers at AA. When Compass flies ( doubt it) for AA, let them try to keep those planes flying for the peanuts they will get. AE gets 4.5% profit and no payments for cancellations even when at the request of AA. Most others get 10%.

Compass does not have 1500 flights daily, AE does. Easy to have a tighter control on quality with 200 flights.