I had a case a couple of years ago (when I was CFI), a student came to rent the planes in my school. That guy never flew a steam gauges, he didn't pass the check to rent the planes.

As I always said to my students, "do your certificates in steam gauges, then do the transition to glass later on when you get a job. Is easier to scan a glass than gauges."

When I was hired in 2008, I had 450 hours of TPIC, 230 in a CRJ, and 220 in an EMB-120. At that time, NWA wanted people that could easily transition to the DC-9.

Go to what ever gives you the best QOL right now, you never know whether you will get a call.

Jamers is 100 correct. I also have seen it first hand. Are there exceptions, yes, i was one of those also. Here it goes, I had a shat load of pic turbo prop time at a regional, was told to my face at JetBlue interview I needed jet time, at a Airtran interview the exact same thing.....they even went on to say that I would most likely not be successful in their training having only flown turboprops! even though i have never failed any check ride in 15 years. I was hired by delta, miracle to have even gotten the interview with only turboprop time. In class hiring cord was asked by a new hire if one of his friends was on the next list, asked his name he looked it up, he was a colgan prop captain, point blank he said"your friend needs to get on a jet"

to be a little more specific, of those six, four were from Compass, two were let go from the nine and two from the airbus, one of those four was fired for his mouth, he blew up on the captain, they went to the cp office and he then blew up on the cp.......bye bye

Direct entry captain, perhaps you should also think about pay in there too. After all, it is a job and that's a big part of what people do jobs for.

Thanks for the answers. Did I understand correctly?

Turbo Prop Pic = No bueno

Turboprop PIC+ Jet SIC = Bueno

Jet PIC = slightly more Bueno

LOL! More details please!

Turbo Prop PIC = bueno (ish)

Non "Entry Level" airlines don't want to have to teach you anything to get you up to speed on their equipment. They want you to be fully qualified and experienced in the basics of what they fly. Glass, FMS, jet, etc.

I've seen it first hand where pilots with thousands upon thousands of PIC in a turboprop (but no jet time) were seen as a bigger unknown than pilots with Jet SIC and no turbine PIC.

I don't completely agree with that, in fact I don't at all, but it happens.

So, is my understanding correct that: Turbo Prop Pic is moderately marketable, turboprop PIC + Jet SIC is marketable, jet PIC is the most marketable?

Hmmmm, none of our Q400 drivers that have moved onto bigger and better places didnt have problems... Granted we are possible the only prop with full glass and dual FMS.

Possibly. Excluding the second FMS, the Dornier 328 prop model was just as if not more sophisticated than a Q400 is.

Some apps I've filled out ask if you have FMS experience. I have yet to see one that asks if you have DUAL FMS experience.

imho it would appear that the trend is that jet time is becoming more favored, over turbo-prop time, in general. Turbo-prop time may still be accepted, however, there may be specific criteria to meet. For example (albeit Qatar Airways is an international carrier):

Pilots & Flight Deck Crew | Qatar Airways US


First officers
Minimum of 1,000 hours in one of the following categories:
• Multicrew, multiengine jet aircraft
• Command of turbo-prop above 20,000 kg MTOW
• High performance military jets
• Valid ICAO ATPL or frozen ATPL
• Valid instrument rating
• Valid Class 1 medical
• Minimum level 4 ICAO English proficiency

Second officers - Fast track
• Minimum of 1,500 hours in a modern multipilot turbo-prop
greater than 12,000 kg MTOW
• Valid ICAO ATPL or frozen ATPL
• Valid Class 1 medical
• Minimum level 4 ICAO English proficiency

At my "non entry level" airline, they tried not to put guys in a plane that they had flown at previous airlines. They wanted to teach them their company procedures.

I had no real glass (EADI and EHSI), and no FMS when I started in the 757/767.

So all of them had problems :eek:

Nobody cares that this guy hasn't said one thing about pay on here, its all about chasing the PIC? No wonder why 2011 was the first year i broke 50k after 6 years on a jet. Faaawwwk!!!!

Of course, how did we miss it.

Dont answer the OP's question, scorn him for being "part of the problem." Man, these forums are indeed full of information:rolleyes:

I've only seen jet time favored for international airlines just as posted above regarding Qatar.

Your Colgan, that explains it. You guys didn't care about money either.

First year FO pay on the B1900 is three bucks less than on the CRJ900 at your company.

And you're SkyWest. You guys don't care about whipsawing other pilots.

Seriously man, a SkyWest pilot preaching about "bar lowering?"

Keep drinking that Salt Lake Kool Aid


You da man!

Stop justifying your carrier's pay. It's pathetic pay at all regional airlines, especially on the turboprop equipment.

Next up, no one will tell you to your face (lawsuit?) but jet time is looked at more favorably than turboprop time at a place like VA and especially JetBlue. Now that isn't to say they haven't hired turboprop-only guys before, because both have done so, but I know plenty of turboprop guys who were told in their interview "oh, you don't have jet time?" and then subsequently not hired for unknown reasons.

Hey homeboy, we have 6 pilots hired by blue within the past 8 months and have 6 more in the pool as we speak. All of these guys are out of EWR on the Q400... I know you like to make up things and portray them as facts, but your post is far from the truth....

I like how nobody values SIC time, as if it isn't experience... :-(

I know a couple of our guys have been hired off the Saab by a couple different carriers recently too. FWIW.

SIC time is necessary experience in order to be a better PIC in the future. If I am hiring a pilot, I want to know that person is reliable and capable of operating an aircraft. Having a lot of hours of SIC time just means you have a lot of experience watching someone else make critical decisions.

I am not saying that as an FO you don't make important decisions or voice your opinion, but there are a lot of times when you have to choose from a selection of options and the PIC is the one who has final say (assuming they are operating within the realm of safety) because in the end, they are responsible for all that happens on that aircraft.

That being said, I was jumpseating and saw an FO just off IOE who was experiencing icing for their first time and weather down to minimums save a captain from continuing an approach that would have exceeded an aircraft limitation and company policy. That captain was able to fly another day incident free thanks to that FO, but that is why we have two people up there.

Erroneous on all counts!!!:D

Your story is about recent Q guys with glass and FMS experience. The guys I know who were told that was couple years ago, in 2008, and they were Saab guys who were told they were looking for jet, glass, FMS time.

While I agree, just because someone has passed a PIC type ride doesn't mean they are reliable or even capable of operating an aircraft. I can think of one recent accident near BUF in which that was definitely the case. You are correct about the PIC and SIC time and experience, however, you need to start looking at it from the airline's point of view. If I was a hiring manager at JetBlue, Spirit, or Virgin, I would tell my HR folks to only call pilots with 0 to less than 1000TPIC time. You know when this economy turns better, a lot of guys with 1000TPIC or greater will want to bail to bigger carriers like SWA, Fedex, AA, etc.

By locking in guys with less than 1000TPIC, a LCC carrier can ensure these newhire pilots will not bail out to UPS, Fedex, SWA, etc.

You're a real class act...

So you call him out for bringing up the Colgan crash and then you bring up the Pinnacle one? You're both real class acts how about that?

Your only going to work for a regional for one year huh? I was never defending pay at Skywest. Sounds like you'd be the guy who'd love to fly "the 9." Just a little crazy you wouldn't think about pay and work rules when you decide where to work.

And first year pay at Skywest in $11 less an hour than first year 747 FO at United and 3 less than A330 at US Airways...some more useless information and a great example trying to make useless facts fit your viewpoint.

Not SLC, Didn't lower any bars that I know of. Can't think where Skywest is the lowest regional in any part of compensation. With that said, pay still sucks here. I want more $$$. People working for nothing to get themselves PIC isn't going to help my pay or yours. Don't know why you can't understand this.

Stay classy Luv2Rotate! Just don't over-rotate!

Not recently. But there was that little thing back in the 2003-2004 timeframe where they agreed to 700/900 rates for 200 pay, as well as a 18 month freeze on those rates. Effectively killing any attempts at COMAIR had to hold on to their rates, as well as anybody else that was bringing larger AC on property as well.

That made me laugh....good one!

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

Irrelevant. Are you hiding from the reality that as airlines face retirements and hire more pilots, current pilots at VX, JBLU, and Spirit will jump at the opportunity for Fedex, Southwest, Delta? It has happened many times before, especially in 2006 and 2007. By hiring a candidate with less than 1000 TPIC, the airline ensures the pilot applicant is not qualified for SWA/Fedex/UPS.

[QUOTE=ShyGuy;1137339] If I was a hiring manager at JetBlue, Spirit, or Virgin, I would tell my HR folks to only call pilots with 0 to less than 1000TPIC time. QUOTE]

Funny thing about this is I will have more than 1000TPIC but put on the application that I have less than 1000TPIC... that way I can get hired and not worry about my PIC when AA, DL, etc start to hire! They may be able to mess with me but I can mess with them right back!

What about PIC time in an Embraer Phenom? 10.5k jet for a pt. 91, and 135 operator.

Would 121 time be more ideal?