Age Requirements and Regionals
 

Just wondering if any of you can help. I am currently 19 (21 in '08) with about 800/170 and seem to have a hard time finding a regional that doesnt have that "Minimum Age 21" requirement. Colgan, and Great Lakes seem to be the only thing that doesnt have that requirement, and Commut when I reach 900. Colgan is my first choice but I haven't heard from them. But Anyhow, can any of you give me any insight to what I should do. I dont have my CFI's, mainly because I dont have the complete patience to deal with people who want to learn to fly but have no interest in learning.

These are the 2 options I can think of...

1. Keep applying to those airlines

2. Get my CFI's and when I turn 21 apply for a regional.

Thanks in advance for your help!

keep flying till you reach 21, and keep sending in resumes. see if you can get on with a 135 operator, and gain experience there.

Go to college. Keep instructing and getting PIC time and get your college degree in something other than aviation.

He can't KEEP instructing if he hasn't STARTED instructing.

I'm just curious how a 19-year-old got all that time without instructing...:confused:

Besides your age problem, it might be an attitude problem. What makes you think that as a CFI you will only deal with people who don't want to learn? The reason airlines like to hire CFIs is because they probably have to ability to deal with and relate to people with varying levels of experience and expertise.

Heres another thought: the reason many airlines have minimum age requirements is because they want a certain level of maturity. On top of that, unless you have previous experience as a "professional aviator" most airlines are going to be wary about investing time and money in you before you have proven your ability as a professional. Yes, there are exceptions to this rule but they are just that, exceptions. To sum up, my advice would be to shelve your attitude, get your CFI ratings, teach, scare yourself a few times, learn a few things about what it means to be a professional, have some fun and THEN start thinking about the airlines. Besides, a 19 year old kid wouldn't be that much fun on the overnights anyway unless you're in Canada:D

PS
4 years in the right seat at Colgan or Great Mistakes would blow giant donkey balls.

Get your CFI now.

Enroll in college for January 2007 in something other than aviation. I recommend finance if you can stomach it. Go to a state or community college and do not accumulate debt.

Have fun at college. Meet girls. Go to parties. Don't do anything dumb that will follow you around such as a public intox charge.

Use the CFI to instruct enough to stay current without spending money.

Finish the four year degree. You'll want it for a major and may need it to fall back on in bad aviation times.

Do the dance at colgan
 

Dude i would buy you some beer at the crashpad if you have a hot sister that comes over! If you really want to join the rest of us clowns at colgan PM me i can probably give you a hand. Being a CFI can't hurt either but why do it if you dont have to, don't listen to people who say it will make you a better pilot. In any case you will be looking at sometime before you upgrade and i am starting to believe most major's want guys in there 30's or older. I say come over to the circus, make some cash, work on a degree, and party your ass off!!!!!!!!!!:cool:

What he said.

I don't have an attitude problem. People actually say I am more mature for my age. The reason I said that was from personal experience and what I've seen at the flight school. If a person wants to learn how to fly and is really serious about it, then yes, I would strive to teach them no matter what it takes. But at the flight school I'm at, there are a lot of people who just have a lot of money and don't know what to do with it. They show up once a week, don't study and just waste both money and the instructors time.

Had a lot of instructors who knew people who owned airplanes. Besides that, my God Father is a United 67 Captain who ownes a 172 and a BE-76 that I fly whenever I want, as long as I pay for fuel.

I was told when learning how to fly that "PIC non instructing" time looks better than a lot of "dual given" time. Now listening to what everybody is saying, it looks like this statement might be false.

Amen, preach that!

hey, do you live in the north east? I think if you just keep building up your time you wont have a problem gettin in someplace. Besides your way ahead of the majority of pilots at your age. Even if you had to hold off till your 21 you would still have made it in very early.

Using the time you have now to get a college degree would be beneficial in the long run.

This statement is a half-truth. PIC non-instructing time only looks better after you have some of that dual-given time. Where I work, if you got all that time without any dual given, you'll probably not be given a second look. All of the pilots where I work with the exception of one were flight instructors at some point, and seeing some CFI time is a major plus as well as a bond-builder. Get your CFI. You'll be glad you did.

I live in California. I'm currently doing the UVSC Aviation Thing, so I figured that whether I get hired now or not, I'd still be able to work on my degree.

I have a cousin who is in a similar situation as you. He has loads of total time (around 1200 TT with 900 ME) however he cant get hired. What people are telling him in general is the fact that he doesnt not have his CFI. He was told by several hiring managers that he wasnt competitive in a sense because he has not shown the ability (in prior experience) to work in a crew envirornment, which is exactly what instruction is doing. You are probably perfect for 135 job once you meet the single pilot IFR requirement. In the meantime get your CFI, have a student try to kill you a couple of times, and gain some solid flying experience. Also be thankful at how fortunate you are, there are plenty of people on here who would kill to get fly for only the cost of fuel.

Why not go to college and instruct while there? You can do a 4 year bachelors in 3 years and have a much better resume and also not cap yourself from majors. If you go to a 121 you will still have to wait till you are 23 to upgrade... The age thing is a bit of a sticking point I must admit- when I was sending out resumes a few months ago (before I turned 21) I could only apply to those regionals where I could e-mail a resume. The 21 age thing IS a requirement for many and must be met for an interview. Good luck

yeh, that statement isn't really true. the best time will be in a structured atmosphere of some sort. whether that be instructing students or flying corporate, both look better than the "so...did you just buy all this time?" cause that can occasionally lead to the "why did you have to buy time instead of find someone to buy it for you?" question.

A CFI has been considered by some to be the most difficult checkride that people take prior to their 121 stuff. So, it may also show the company that "until now" you've passed the most diff. checkride that's available (because, that will also help show that you might have better promise to pass the 121 ride which is to come) Personally, i'd try to see if there were any 135 type ops around that'd be willing to hire you, even on a part time basis, doing hops in a king air while going to school could be helpful, and it'll show you have some professional flying ability plus some ability to work in a crew. Also, get your degree so you're marketable after the age 60, or before if things go south. Who knows if after you've been flying the line for a while, and are gone all the dang time whether or not you'll actually still enjoy the flying, and if that's the case, might as well have somewhere else to go. Find something you enjoy and major in that, no need in gettin an aviation degree which will have u taking corses for stuff you already know and understand.

Using your current situation (privately flying a 172) that statement is completely false. I've been at two airlines and they all want to see that you've been employed at an aviation company. They want to see that another company has given you the responsibility of operating their aircraft. Instruction, Pipeline, 135 cargo, whatever...

Well i am just going to kind of jump in here, agree or disagree with me if you want. I just turned 19 years old, just hit my 1000tt and about 100 multi, and fly about 110 hours a month, and yet I still take a full load of classes. Half at a local college, and the others classes at uvsc online. But I would like to get on with a company like express jet because I have talked to a pilot there and it seems like a good place to be, but the only other regional I would work for would be horizon so I don’t know but most likely I would like to end up at ameriflight hopefully. This would be a good option because there is no ago to upgrade into pic of a 135 if I am correct so I could get my turbine pic, go to a regional get some 121 experience and go from there. Sound like a good plan…

Something else you young guys with rediculous amounts of time might be overlooking is that it can smell fishy to the hiring department at most airlines. I guarantee it will come up at an interview and the last thing they want to hear is "i flew around for sh!ts and giggles, paying for it out of my (or mommy and daddy's) pocket". Diamnd15, how are you flying 110hrs a month if you aren't already employed? When I was instructing at one of the largest aviation colleges in the country with a full load of students. doing checkrides and maxing out my duty time every month, I was averaging 80 hours a month of flight time.

Got another question for you young guys who are up to your eye balls in flight time: what is your damn hurry? If you got hired TODAY, thats 4 years MINIMUM to upgrade. Regardless what the upgrade time is at the company. Do you really want to sling gear in a B1900 at Colgan or where ever else might hire you for 4 years? At 19 you should go to college, party yourself silly, have drunk sex with random girls and not have to worry about reserve phone time, 30 in 7 conflicts, when your next PC is due, is the company paying me right, is what they're asking me to do legal, when am i going to eat next, how quickly can I cover the 3 S's (sh!t, shower and shave) in the morning and all those other glamourous things that go on in the regional airline world. Thats just my 2 cents.

He has a very, very good point here...

I dont know. Its not really a rush, but more of a "why waste time" type of feeling. Regardless of whether I'd be right seat for 1 month or 10 years flying commercially is what I've always wanted to do. As for my personal life and what I should be doing, I'm 19, married and have a son, so I think that what I'm trying to achieve in flying now would be more beneficial then trying to screw random girls. I'm taking college courses, and other than flying, have a part time job. So I have my hands full now. For those of you wondering, I have my CFI checkride in 3 weeks, so its not like I'm completely avoiding that. Its just that only very few people I met want to be a lifetime CFI, the rest are just using it as a time builder. With this said, I have 800 hours and building, so I kind of don't need to be a CFI. Now before all you start yelling at me, I have the utmost respect for CFI's, after all, it was a CFI who taught me to fly.

I've just recently heard from many(including you) about how getting the CFI ticket is a plus being that it is a hard test. I have my test in about 3 weeks or so, so I'm looking forward to that.

As for 135, AmFlight is the only thing that comes to mind in the Southwest / California region and they have a minimum age requirement. If anybody can think of other 135 without age requirements, please let me know.

"why waste my time" and "I kind of don't need to be a CFI" are very telling statements. I don't mean to be rude, you probably don't know enough about flying to be a good airline pilot (I know I was not and darn near every person I knew with the experience you desribe didn't either). You will probably learn more as a CFI than just about any flying you will probably ever do (no, I am not a 121 pilot, but I have been flying 135 single pilot for nearly half your life). I know I learned more in the first 100 hours of flight instructing than in any other 1000 hours I have flown. Even if one does not wish to flight instruct as a living or time builder, it is a different environment and any new enviornment lets one learn new things. Heck, I am working on my glider ratings now for fun and have learned a ton more about flying in the "slow flight" realm in a few hours than I have flying powered aircraft.

A note about those folks that "don't want to learn." I have yet to meet anyone who is willing to spend $3-4000 on a private ticket that didn't want to learn. (Perhaps you are projecting your attitude on other, but that is not my place to say)

If you choose not to be a CFI, fine, but don't say in an interview it is a waste of time. Tons of folks who are employed as pilots have been CFIs and you would ruffle some feathers. You could get away with saying something like I chose to fly as a glider tower or pipeline patrol because the schedule allowed me to finish my degree.

Finnaly, the pilots that scare me the most are the ones who don't realise they are mortal or think they have learned all there is to know.

Good luck,
J

If you have no patience flight instructing right now, I can only imagine what you'll be like 4 years down the road as the most senior FO at your company!!! You'll be the infamous FO with severe case of "captain-itus." You’ll feel like every captain there is your student bastard from hell. Of course, I’m exaggerating to make a point.

Brother let me tell you; you seem to be a nice guy with family, etc. Please do not rush to the airlines because many major airlines won't hire you without a degree. Please get your degree, be a great husband and a father and the airline thing will happen sooner than you think. Don’t get “locked” into a first officer position because you’ll be able to watch all your friends upgrade and move onto bigger airlines leaving you behind. You’ll be so miserable then.

Now, if you were at an airline where it takes decades to upgrade, like Eagle, you probably wouldn’t even notice your age because by the time your upgrade comes up you’ll be pretty darn close to your retirement! ;) Kiddin' of course, well, kind of.

Anyway, you have a great future ahead of you; get a degree, keep building flight time, network for future references and you'll be golden! Good Luck!


Also...
"I know I learned more in the first 100 hours of flight instructing than in any other 1000 hours I have flown."

I agree 100% with this statement!

Absolutely!!! Extemely good advice. Been in this business for 39 years, and never ever regretted getting that degree. But you should also check into military flying after your degree, in particular Air Force transport flying. A lot of fun, and extremely good experience.

[QUOTE=freezingflyboy;72748]Something else you young guys with rediculous amounts of time might be overlooking is that it can smell fishy to the hiring department at most airlines. I guarantee it will come up at an interview and the last thing they want to hear is "i flew around for sh!ts and giggles, paying for it out of my (or mommy and daddy's) pocket".

It came up in my interview. Though I had a CFI. They went through all my logbooks and couldn't figure out why it took me 100+ hrs to get a private pilot. The answer was easy, flying once a week since I was 14:D Then they though it was pretty funny....

19 yo, married, and a son? Sounds like someone had a hard with "safety" at a young age and got some chic knocked up. Now he is married to her. If you add being away all the time to your immaturity that marriage is doomed to fail.

The good thing is time wont be wasted with the shave if you aren't growing hair on your chin yet. So I guess it's more of the 2 S's

Not to mention that:

1) You can make a career out of it (and retire in your 40's).
and
2) Make contacts which will help you get hired at any major you choose.

well first off i am a cfi with a few students, but also i fly as a traffic watch pilot. i am not in any hurry to get to the regionals but if i have the chance to go to a good one, i would. well i maybe 19, i still get to act like one and have fun with all of my time off. this is just my full time jobs and how i pay the bills, im very happy with where i am now and the people i get to fly with, and dont plan on dropping out of college either.

Well I can tell you right now, your marriage would probably last longer if you were screwing random girls than if youre on the road 3-4 nights a week at 19 with a child. I hope your wife is incredibly mature and very level headed. One thing you may be overlooking is that as a CFI, you would be home every night and your schedule would be flexible enough to help watch your child if your wife couldn't.

Another poster already said it but I wanted to second the comment: If you think you know all there is to know about flying because you have 1000 hours, then you are the most dangerous pilot out there. You will learn more about flying and being a professional and how to get out of tricky situations by being a CFI than by doing anything else. Believe it or not, being a CFI isn't just about building time. A lot of people actually enjoyed instructing and learned more doing it than they have since, myself included. And if I was flying with some 19 year old punk who thought instructing was useless except for buildint time, then I guarantee its going to be a very long, awkward trip for him/her.

uh it just bothers me when some 19 yr old kid who flys daddys plane for free complains about the age requirement for the regionals. You dont even want to work as a CFI cuz u seem to think you dont need to since u got the hours handed to you. I'm 21 and im actually lookin forward to getting my CFI. I dont really view it as a ''waste of time''. Some of us actually work hard to get where we are now. You should really consider yourself lucky. If I was in your shoes id be a little more patient and wait till im 21. I mean whats your rush?? you already got the keys to an airplane. Even getting hired at 21 ur still starting out very young and you wouldnt have wasted any time.

Thanks Again
 

Just wanted to thank EVERYBODY who posted on this thread. I've heard many different opinions, some what I wanted to hear and others that I was hoping no one would say. Anyhow, I've taken everything to thought, and came to this conclusion.

Get CFI next month (then CFII and MEI)
Instruct for about 15 months (till I turn 21)
Get at least A.S before 21
Apply for decent regional at 21 (should have exp as flight instructor, and A.S)
Work on B.S. and fly right seat.

That seems to be my career path from now till then. I've never realized how being a CFI is more than just a time builder, but listening to all of you made me think otherwise.

Once again I want to thank everyone who posted on this thread.

1 last question and I'm done....

I have 2 apps out right now, 1 at GLA and 1 at Colgan. Even assuming one calls me for an interview, do I turn it down being I have my goals set???

To answer that question, ask yourself this: Do I want to spend 4 YEARS pulling gear in the right seat of a B1900 at either of those companies and THEN upgrade and spend another year or 2 MINIMUM to get my 1000 turbine PIC? Answer that question and you will answer your first question.

PS
I was making more as a CFI than a 4th year GLA FO and about the same as a 4th year Colgan FO AND I was home every night, building my own schedule and having a blast. Just some food for thought.

ooopsss, i read other stuff.

[QUOTE=KZ1000Shaft;72828]19 yo, married, and a son? Sounds like someone had a hard with "safety" at a young age and got some chic knocked up. Now he is married to her. If you add being away all the time to your immaturity that marriage is doomed to fail.

Nice cheap shot. Speculation and moral preaching dont belong here or anywhere else. And if that was the case then good for him being responsible and taking care of his priorities. Maybe he is closer to an airline captain than any of you think.

An old joke...

Requirements for Captain Upgrade
ATP.................Check
Type Ride.........Check
2 ex-Wives.......Check!


JGonzalez1305, if (and when) you do go to a regional, do not commute, unless you want to work on that upgrade. Move your family to your domicile. Making no money is surviveable. Your wife being effectively a single working mother probably isn't.
She will resent you being gone. So you have to minimize your time away. Since Colgan domiciles in out stations, you spend more time at home with them. But check out posts on other threads, by people who know the company first hand, about thier QOL.

Luck!

WOW! A 19 yo that takes advice! Gotta say, you are smarter than the average kid.

Good luck :)

You can apply at Mesa at 20 years old.

Or you shoot yourself in the groin with a shotgun filled with rock salt...no age requirement for that:rolleyes: