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-   -   Early Brake Release= Shenanigans? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/66773-early-brake-release-shenanigans.html)

MatchPoint 04-18-2012 04:44 PM


Originally Posted by Flying Illini (Post 1171456)
Close MCD
Drop Brake
Call for push
Call ramp back to cancel the push b/c you are missing ground personnel.

Now the problem is United's ground personnel, not when you dropped the brake.

Almost..........

Call for push as door closes
Drop Brake
Wait for Ramp/Ground to ask why you're not pushing
Through United under the bus


Note: You want to "Clear’d to Push" prior to MCD and Brake drop so do it as doors closing in order to allow time for Ramp/Ground response.

lolwut 04-18-2012 04:50 PM


Originally Posted by Flying Illini (Post 1171456)
Close MCD
Drop Brake
Call for push
Call ramp back to cancel the push b/c you are missing ground personnel.

Now the problem is United's ground personnel, not when you dropped the brake.

Are you allowed to drop the brake and call for push without the push-crew in position?

sinsilvia666 04-18-2012 04:52 PM

just blame it on ground ops, not like that isn't the case 90% of the time.

on the express side at terminal a they are trying to get us to open the doors as soon as we park instead of waiting for the bags, always fun having 74 people milling around that area with 15ft props.

xjtguy 04-18-2012 04:52 PM


Originally Posted by tennisguru (Post 1171454)
1. Drop brake
2. Call for push
3. Wait 10 seconds
4. Call ramp and tell them that you had an issue pop up and that you'll need to cancel the clearance and call them back when you're ready again.

Works good, SOMETIMES. Meaning that the UAL ramp/ops people will simply block you back in on their own initiative.

A lot of this ties into the whole getting paid to deice thing.

bigscrillywilli 04-18-2012 05:06 PM


Originally Posted by WeaselBoy (Post 1171416)
On the S5 side of RAH we occasionally get threat memos concerning "Early Brake Release" (EBR) warnings on the United side. They claim that United is tracking the time from our ACARS blocks us out (brake release) to the time we call for push. According to our management, United provides an average EBR time. United's goal is one minute.

Recently, our management put out a new threat memo that since our EBR is averaging over two minutes, that United wants to change our ACARS block out to register during aircraft movement, not door closed with brakes released.

Is any other United Express carrier hearing this is? Or, is this another way our management is just trying to lower our blocks hour to save paying aircrews?

Hope that doesn't happen to you guys.....we at ****mont have to move 50'

sinsilvia666 04-18-2012 05:16 PM


Originally Posted by bigscrillywilli (Post 1171490)
Hope that doesn't happen to you guys.....we at ****mont have to move 50'

call for a tug shuv !

BS in proflight 04-18-2012 06:01 PM

At Mesaba now Pinnacle, we always leave a good ten minutes early under Delta Colors, especially when leaving all the old Saab Cities around the upper Midwest. Never heard any complaints about it. If the door was closed early you could always blame it on the anti skid test on the CRJ200 that requires the brake to be released during the test. Not my problem if the door happened to be closed before the test. Haha! .....kind of weird how United seems to be obsessed with not leaving early.

paxhauler85 04-18-2012 06:06 PM

Happened all the time to us at Mesa. They changed our ACARS to brake release with oil pressure on both engines. That ended the harrasment quickly.

lolwut 04-18-2012 06:13 PM


Originally Posted by paxhauler85 (Post 1171532)
Happened all the time to us at Mesa. They changed our ACARS to brake release with oil pressure on both engines. That ended the harrasment quickly.

So you don't even get paid to start the engines on the plane?

MatchPoint 04-18-2012 06:15 PM


Originally Posted by BS in proflight (Post 1171525)
At Mesaba now Pinnacle, we always leave a good ten minutes early under Delta Colors, especially when leaving all the old Saab Cities around the upper Midwest. Never heard any complaints about it. If the door was closed early you could always blame it on the anti skid test on the CRJ200 that requires the brake to be released during the test. Not my problem if the door happened to be closed before the test. Haha! .....kind of weird how United seems to be obsessed with not leaving early.

It's not about leaving early; it's about paying shorter block times. They don't want to pay when the plane is loaded, closed up and is waiting for push. They only want to pay for when the airplane is moving. Delta doesn't use the brake as a money maker, just for on time stats. They care far more about fuel conservation (ground power) because it cost more. At Delta you don’t have to ask for GP but at United it’s never offered. Delta has a much smarter Mgmt. team than UniCal!!!


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