We are comparing Apples to Apples. The Country-Wide Average pay for each profession. You can pick and choose which Department and which Airline, and which city till the cows come home, but in the end, by doing that you are skewing the numbers to either side.

The only true, fair, gauge of who earns what is by the Country-Wide Average Pay. I am not saying that Pilots make what they should, I feel they are underpaid, however the numbers you have presented are very skewed, a true representation would be by a National Average.

As far as plumbers go, here is what the make on average:
[I]n May 2004, median hourly earnings of plumbers, pipefitters, and steamfitters were $19.85.

That is about equal to what starting Regional FOs make, however when you become a plumber you must first start off as an apprentice first.

Apprentices make about 50% of that hourly earning, making it around $9.93 an hour. So the start off pay for a Regional FO is better than that of an Apprentice Plumber, and equal to the Average Plumber Wage.

Plumbers may make more in a year, mainly because they work more "paying hours" than a Regional FO would make.

I see that you were one of "those" crewmembers. I have been to MFR many times and always find something to do.

Disagree
 

The regionals aren't going away, and the Majors aren't going to take back their routes either. Infact, if anything the Majors will continue to relinquish their domestic routes to smaller are more frequent service and concentrate on international service. With that shift this will actually reduce the workforce needed. So in the future, I see the regionals as being a career path for majority of the pilot workforce. Ofcourse there will be the lucky few who make it to the Major, National or Fractional companies.

And your numbers only take into account one of the highest cost of living areas in the country!!!

Average* home price in Montclair (9/2006) = $440,000
Average* condo price in Montclair = $321,000

Post-tax earnings*:
$3075 - $3624

Average* home price in LA (9/2006) = $726,000
Average* condo price in LA = $495,000

Post-tax earnings*:
$2756 - $3612

Second year at regional - annualized gross pay on just turned second year pay based off last months paycheck: $48,300 (includes $6,480 in per diem) 14 days off - hardly "slave wages" IMO.

Ability to commute from extremely cheap outstation living: priceless :D!

I fly with captains that are 27-30 years old making $75k+ with 4 years with the company.

Don't get my wrong; I would love to be earning much, much more. This job, provided I don't make it into UPS/FedEx (ha ha, fat chance) will be a stepping stone. I read somewhere you build houses? Would you like to be a mentor??? I've been interested in construction and am doing some background research now. Without going into too much detail my goal is to be doing it as a major source of income in 5 years (when I turn 30).

*Sources:
http://www.dqnews.com/ZIPLAT.shtm
http://www.paycheckcity.com

You win!!!
 

Skyhigh
Congratulations. You have managed to get 44 postings for your new topic. :p
To those of you who (primarily) troll the Regional threads, Skyhigh has been a regular at beating every ones career choice into the ground. You will note he is seldom seem anymore on the cargo and major threads, everyone there has heard the same tripe you are responding to. You'll catch on soon and learn to ignore him.

Than..............

"Now we will return to our previous scheduled programing............." ;) :D

If he would be more realistic in his facts he would have much more credit coming to him. He IS needed around here though IMO. He provides some yin to the yang.

Skyhigh, how much $$ do you earn now that you have left horizon (serious question). I would bet he earns considerably more then most of us do and has seen what a better life he is able to give his family by doing so - he's just trying to educate us!

My friend, look 19.02 for a regional is flight hours!(door closed/door open). Duty time(report/release) is typically double on a turbo prop than flight time. So for your first year your are at 9 dollars an hour.(think burger king wage's)

Very true. Which makes comparing these types of jobs difficult in the first place. I'm no expert on pay either, just posting what the Department of Labor says. I'm also not trying to justify poor pilot pay, I agree it is too low.

What I am trying to show is that their is no easy job out there that makes lots of money, in a short period of time, and that requires no personal sacrifices. You do not start off at the top, and you dont get to the top without making sacrifices. A career is either for you or it isn't, every career has different sacrifices that are required. Many of these sacrifices we do not see, because we have not done those jobs, just like many people outside of aviation do not know the sacrifices the pilots make. That is why other jobs appear to be that much better.

The real question is, are you willing to make those sacrifices to get to the top?? If you are not, then a different career is for you, one where you are willing to make the sacrifices required to get to the top.

Get to the top
 

Get to the top of what? The dog pile?

SkyHigh

Fosters
 

Fosters,

Again, Apples to Apples, airline pilot jobs are located in the big city and therefore need to be compared to big city jobs. Pilots can commute, so can firefighters. The point is that not everyone can or is willing to burn a few extra un-paid days each month commuting therefore they need the even playing field of big city costs of living as well. Commuting isn't free. Most people need a crash pad, airport car, occasional hotel room and lets not forget the wasted days commuting.


Airline jobs are national in scope therefore wages are somewhat similar nation wide. What might seem acceptable to someone living in Arkansas would be insulting to someone on the west coast. Where I live 100 miles away from the city of Seattle the cheapest starter homes in town are about to top 200K. In a Seattle suburb a similar house is 350-400K. Therefore to a rural Kansas kid who gets hired by SkyWest and is given a southern California base they are in for a huge shock when they start looking for an apartment.



Skyhigh, how much $$ do you earn now that you have left horizon (serious question). I would bet he earns considerably more then most of us do and has seen what a better life he is able to give his family by doing so - he's just trying to educate us!

Thank you for that kind statement. That is exactly right. My goal is to get some of you guys to think outside the box. We all get so involved in selling ourselves false information on aviation it is wise to come up for air and look around once in a while. It is easy to tell ourselves that we are doing alright and overlook how much time and effort we really are spending for what is given in return.

In answer to your question I made more money last year than in all my years as a pilot combined. I was home with my wife and children everyday and I don't even know where my suitcase is anymore. Many of my ex-coworkers have experienced the same epiphany. We get so invested in selling ourselves on sacrifice that it is easy to loose sight on reality. To a starving CFI 30K seems like a fortune.

SKyHigh

No, the orgy pile.

dckozak
 

Don my old friend, Have I been neglecting you too much lately? Have you come here to bait me back to the big boy forums? I will surf a little to see what you guys are up to. :)

SkyHigh

Orgy?
 

You do know that in an orgy there are both naked dudes and girls right? It's alright if that is your thing. :D (Just joking around with ya.)

SkyHigh

The top of your career, to reach your goal. Whether it be a Major Airline Pilot, or Chief of Police. You go into a career with a goal of where you want to end up in that career, if you dont you wont advance. To get to that end goal you have to be willing to make certian sacrifices, which are different depending on career choice, if you are not willing to make those certain sacrifices than the career is the wrong career for you.

Don't get me wrong, I think that with you here, you give people the otherside of the coin. You help to give a more realistic perspective. And by doing so you are saving people from entering a career which they are not suited for. You help give a reality check.

I read alot of what you say, and think it helps to give me a better perspective on what working for a regional is like, and I am sure it has done the same for others looking at a career in aviation. I think that is great, and that you should present things from a different prespective, someone who was not willing and realized they were not willing to make the required sacrifices to advance in the Airline Industry.

However, I disagree with you when you present other careers, because you do just the opposite of what you do here talking about Airline Careers, you present only the positive of those careers and none of the sacrifices required, and honestly one would not know what the negatives and their affects are until they actually do it. Thats my major contention with some of the things you post.

NOT IN MY PILE :D

Sales
 

Well my mission is to point out that similar careers offer better compensation for much less sacrifice. I am not making these facts up. Pilots tend to reject the idea that they are being shorted when they obviously are.

SKyHigh