O boy, thats good

Let me know where you get your stuff, it must be pretty good.

ya ya ya I know i know....however not all wholey owned rj airlines have had the comair fate. The majority have been spun off or sold. Comair is the only one that got this treatment. Can someone from Comair tell me if Delta wanted to spinoff Comair??

Its all about lean and cheap operations these days. 1 efficient fleet type and JR pilots, just like Eagle. Don't worry you guys will decimate the competition.

I think what Rick was referring to was that if a good enough ASA was to be offered by AMR for someone else to take Eagle but have a large amount of AMR's feed moving forward someone might bite. The whole deal that we are so profitable and all that crap I don't buy it, AMR loves doing crazy accounting and shuffling money around, with that in mind SKW, RAH or whoever will not rent class room space from AMR at their cost, will not pay for simulator time at the rates AMR will want to impose. AMR is able to shuffle a lot of money in and out of Eagle. Eagle is just another regional who happens to own a lot of 50 seaters as well as a senior pilot group (but others acre catching up specially the ones under the SKW umbrella). Eagle in the open marker would not be kicking @$$ and taking names due to the above monitored but under the AMR umbrella Eagle has a lot of value for AMR. Eagle is not worth a lot but it's worth a lot to AMR, if AMR wanted to rid themselves of Eagle they would have done. Don't tell me that they care about the share holders because that's not what CH11 does, AMR has and will make decisions that to us might not make sense but AMR currently is spending a lot of money in Eagle and most of the things being done probably would be wasted if Eagle merged with someone else. It is what it is, from the outside looking in we seem hosed, from the inside looking in we seem hosed but there are a lot of moving parts and we will just read about it on the USA Today.

If AA hired Eagle would be fairly junior fast. Also AA could be adding almost 150 new airplanes to their feed (which AA wont hire for a long long time), however if they do thats a good chunk of flying. Add in Eagles planes of 250 and there are lucrative deals. I am just playing what IFs. I think Eagle will end up with 200 70-90 seat airplanes over the next 5 years, and 150 other airplanes will get bid out, mainly lower cost 50 sear jets. With attrition the furloughing maybe light. Its such a fluid industry its really hard to tell. However saying Eagle is doomed to be shutdown is a huge assumption.

It's uncertain, management will do what they want, the law gives them a lot of wiggle room and support. What will they outsource is yet to be seen, I don't know how junior would get overnight since most of the senior captain are not going anywhere. But if AMR was to build Eagle for the long term, lets say towards the latter part of the decade Eagle would be a junior pilot group as many of the senior folks would be gone via retirement and most of the rest to greener pastures. The problem is that management is short sided and only care about the short term for the most part, they as well as investors are looking for the short term cash. It seems that Eagle is being setup to be a viable company for the long term (industry standards) but if the situation arises where they are able to obtain a faster pay out don't count on them hesitating. They will step on anyone on their way to the highest yield, but in this instance AMR is a very controlling culture and Eagle as a wholly own might be the highest yield/money shelter!

Theres no way Pinnacle could ever become the next Comair.

People actually have respected Comair as a company and employer at points in history.

Mainlines = honeybadgers.. They don't give a $%!^. it's only the regionals that are going to have hiring issues. There are more current RJ captains than mainline wants in total pilots.

Exactly, pilot shortage? Yeah, I don't think so.

I think what you meant to say is the regionals have more unemployable rejects than mainline(s) want in total pilots.

To qoute "Wayne's World", 'We're not worthy...we're not worthy...we're not worthy...! ':eek:

I don't think Rick has 2 full years in the industry yet. I'm pretty sure Eagle is his first airline gig.

TC

pretty sure your right, I was partly using my family exposure to the airlines to supplement my knowledge. I am young dumb and stupid, thats nothing new.

Yeah same here.. Our dads' probably 60 plus combined years experience in 121 flying means NOTHING, dude!!

To be honest they really do not have too much current insight... (yours may be different) Mine asks me for whats going on at his own company. Good info yes but a little out of touch at times. Better just to use your own experience almost.

Haha this definitely happens to me every week.. He gets all excited when he finds something out and hopes I don't know about it.

Watching both my parents go through eastern and my dad United, it was an eye opener.

Since you called me out, i do have a question, why in hell would you go to eagle after being f'd from comair.

Fool me once..... Fool me twice.

Comair also took a bunch of ground handling from OO a few years ago, only to be shut down. If I were still at AE I'd be looking for a new job.

Are kidding Delta came to OO to try and get them to buy Comair. OO said no way! Comair is very similar AE whether you like it or not. Hopefully AA finds a buyer but unfortunely they've been trying to find a buyer for sometime now with no takers OO included.

Pinnacle is the next Pinnacle... Those close to the situation know what I'm saying.

Yep... the only comparison between Pinnacle and Comair is that Pinnacle is likely the next big regional to go bye bye.

Pretty much and SkyWest bought ASA for pretty much the price of its assets at the time and most likely only because of the lucrative CPA that Delta had to sign out of desperation of needing the money (400million-ish) to keep operating in bankruptcy.

Only time will tell what will happen to AE, I would keep a keen eye out for the road markers that Comair saw to see if you are on the same road.

Calm down there....I wasn't saying you were young, dumb, and stupid ( redundant?) but more that your enthusiasm and experiences haven't found their LD Max yet. ;-)

Pinnacle is certainly in a league of their own. They are getting exactly what they want out of this BK, a new management team is in place, everyone and their mother (including the senior) are jumping ship helping to reset all their costs. Once the BK terms are shoved down all the employee's throats even more people will leave. When this thing is all said and done even GoJet won't be able to compete. I don't see Pinnacle going away, they are like a cockroach, they will be around long into the future constantly exerting downward pressure on pilot wages.

I knew Eagle was headed for rough waters. I was hoping that the 824 would have been flowing to AA and that would take care of a "senior pilot group". That and the new FT/DT regs would have made me a senior FO or junior captain.

Plus Eagle having a Miami base makes commuting a little less a life sucking adventure.

But alas......just hang a shiney jet in front of me and I'm yours.;)

We all said the same exact crap at Comair when I was there.

This could be true except .. the new 9E is being built as a purely CR9 operation. The current group of CR9 captains, and many senior MSP FO's have no plans on leaving, no matter how bad things get. They are lifers with only a few years left, and they will ride the gravy train til the end, or until DL hires them. These guys are incredibly costly to employ compared to CP or GoJet, and a 25% pay cut will not change the fact that you have a large group of guys topped out on pay/vacation/401/sick/high insurance costs.

Couldn't agree more. What would captain Pete do?

Don't worry, Angry Pete will find something to complain about no matter the situation.

What is this industry coming to when pilots who have that kind of experience are being threatened by pay cuts and being penalized for years of service? We are all just contract pilots who don't even have the power to negotiate.

The regional industry we have today was not designed to have people stick around for 10+ years.

I don't blame anyone for sticking around, its tough to find a job. But its the reason a lot of the airlines with the better contracts are finding themselves unable to compete with GoJets, Silver and the like. Majors want the cheapest bidder, not the regional airline with lots of guys at the top of the pay scale.

Yes Pinnacle senior guys are a lead anchor, but the biggest problem is the inefficiencies. Pilots who are seat swapping only to not fly for 4 months while they are paying others 200% due to short staffing is more of the real issue. Pay differences of only 5-10 per hour isn't really that large in the grand scheme of things. Jet fuel is the real drag. The simple fact that the true CASM is considerably more than RASM is a deal killer.

Pinnacles big problem is they have way too many CRJ-200's with a handful of 900's. 200's simply are not profitable. Delta can't keep on flying routes that are a financial drain year after year. Tickets are bought no more than 6-9 months in advance. I see Delta winding down the 200 operation quickly. You just can't keep running an unprofitable branch of an operation.

It is really not the 200, that plane makes money under the right circumstances. The issue is none of the legacy carriers have done any significant hiring in the last 10 years. This creates 2 problems. One is that pilots are stuck at regionals for a long time, thus increasing their seniority and pay. Second, once said pilots get to that top payscale at the regional they start to get in the mindset of "its not worth it" when they look at the paycut and QOL hits they would take if they went from RJ Captain to Mainline FO.

Come on, Pinnacle Pete isn't that bad! He had some good points on airlinkpilots.

There are guys that considered themselves 'above' a place like Spirit, VA, and JetBlue. Ok then. Good luck until Delta or American calls.

It's not like my current employer was my dream job, in fact, they've only been around for a few years. I would have preferred to stick around until Delta or American hired, but the changing dynamics of 9E has forced many pilots out. I took the first opportunity to get out, and have no regrets. I'm also not 'above' any LCC/major when it comes to working for them. In this industry, it's the luck of the draw, and I consider myself fortunate. But all that starts with a mentality that is to get out. For some at 9E, it came too late. Best of luck to all, and I hope pilots can get out sooner rather than later.

'Atta boy. Much better post. You must have had a good day!

So Skywest, ASA, Express and Republic don't have senior pilots? And they don't fly 50 seaters? This was just another way for Delta to control costs. Delta gave 9E the money because they knew it would put downward pressure on the industry and in the end put more money in the hands of the share holders. Pinnacle is just the first to the BK show, soon others will follow. Delta needs Pinnacle around so they can be the next GoJet and keep down regional costs. That is one theory at least.