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May I make one suggestion to those that are benefiting: Don't get comfortable with AMR. Since 2007, BOS has closed, CRJ DFW was shifted to ORD and LGA, Saabs were grounded, a huge and cool base of SJU has been whittled down to nothing, DFW ATR opened and closed in a 3 year period, SJU soon to disappear, two furlough rounds, multiple Vacancy, displacements (four in 2009 alone) effecting hundreds of pilots, not to mention ground personal and FAs all having to up root families it quit.
I could go on and on. But my point is, don't go to DFW and buy a house, fall in love, have a kid or do anything that requires long term commitments. 4 years from now, it might belong to Silver. Actually, I'm kind of surprised AMR hasn't given them some portion of the flying already. And Eagle hasn't really shrunk in terms of pilots...just.shifted around. |
Originally Posted by SebastianDesoto
(Post 1260875)
May I make one suggestion to those that are benefiting: Don't get comfortable with AMR. Since 2007, BOS has closed, CRJ DFW was shifted to ORD and LGA, Saabs were grounded, a huge and cool base of SJU has been whittled down to nothing, soon to disappear, two furlough rounds, multiple Vacancy, displacements (four in 2009 alone) effecting hundreds of pilots, not to mention ground personal and FAs....
I could go on and on. But my point is, don't go to DFW and buy a house, fall in love, have a kid or do anything that requires long term commitments. 4 years from now, it might belong to Silver. Actually, I'm kind of surprised AMR hasn't given them some portion of the flying already. |
Originally Posted by Leroy Smith
(Post 1260830)
My apologies to all Eagle pilots that are upset by this, but welcome to the world. If ASA did not get this CPA, they would be furloughing in the near future- so if we feel happy or relieved by the news , perhaps you can understand why. And yes, some might be really happy, but for those displaced out of DFW 8 or 9 years ago and commuting, this is a little bit of very good news.
Some of you talk like you are the only pilots to ever face a bad deal. We have had furloughs, we have had multiple base closings and displacements. Upgrades are 7yrs and will continue to climb. We have seen "our" flying get underbid by RAH, PCL, G7, Etc. This is the world we have lived in since about 2006. While I am sorry that you have to now face the SUCK that is the regional airline model after so many years of being isolated from the whipsaw, I dont think this is the last bit of bad news you will get in your time at AE. Sorry. |
Looks like people are starting to get it. The future is a continual pilot dogfight where the skinniest dog wins. I'm estimating that the typical senior RJ captain of today making 90K wil be flying a CRJ or E-jet with about 20-25% less earning power in 4 years considering inflation and increasing health care. That's about $70,000 max in today's dollars. As bad as that sounds, there are two additions which make it worse.
1. Even THAT will be too expensive in 4 years, so you'll have to accept less. And 2. That only applies to those maxed out. Since MANY won't be maxed-out captains (or even captains), the majority should take their current W-2 and take at least 15-20% off and project yourself 4 years from now. Enjoy your careers, me hearties. :cool: |
Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 1260893)
Looks like people are starting to get it. The future is a continual pilot dogfight where the skinniest dog wins. I'm estimating that the typical senior RJ captain of today making 90K wil be flying a CRJ or E-jet with about 20-25% less earning power in 4 years considering inflation and increasing health care. That's about $70,000 max in today's dollars. As bad as that sounds, there are two additions which make it worse.
1. Even THAT will be too expensive in 4 years, so you'll have to accept less. And 2. That only applies to those maxed out. Since MANY won't be maxed-out captains (or even captains), the majority should take their current W-2 and take at least 15-20% off and project yourself 4 years from now. Enjoy your careers, me hearties. :cool: |
Originally Posted by SebastianDesoto
(Post 1260900)
And the cost of flight training will continue to rise while the new ATP laws will make it even more difficult to get that job.
This transportation "model" has a limited lifespan. They can't raise compensation that much considering the smaller aircraft cannot support that due to less revenue generated as the costs would exceed that of the majors. Independent regionals won't be able to sustain that and majors won't pay for it. This flying will have to ultimately be blended into the majors, but that means most regional pilots will be no better off in that time frame as is the best outcome, they'll be at the bottom of a major seniority list and mostly all F/O's on junior equipment in the $40-60/hour range. Thus, the overwhelming majority of regional pilots are making as much or more now then they will for many, many years while this reality shakes itself out over the next 4-8 years. |
Originally Posted by babs
(Post 1260788)
While these posts may be slightly overly dramatic, the fact that you can't see the big picture leads me to believe that you are one of those regional pilots you speak so highly of.
Don't worry, I see the big picture. I'm just pointing out that some of these guys are acting like ninnies and embarrassing themselves in public. Outsourcing sucks, but it's the current state of this segment the industry. You'd think your energy would be focused on getting out rather than preserving what once was at Eagle or any of the other lifer regionals for that matter. Speaking of the big picture. |
Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 1260907)
This flying will have to ultimately be blended into the majors, but that means most regional pilots will be no better off in that time frame as is the best outcome, they'll be at the bottom of a major seniority list and mostly all F/O's on junior equipment in the $40-60/hour range. Thus, the overwhelming majority of regional pilots are making as much or more now then they will for many, many years while this reality shakes itself out over the next 4-8 years.
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Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 1260907)
Which means ?
This transportation "model" has a limited lifespan. They can't raise compensation that much considering the smaller aircraft cannot support that due to less revenue generated as the costs would exceed that of the majors. Independent regionals won't be able to sustain that and majors won't pay for it. This flying will have to ultimately be blended into the majors, but that means most regional pilots will be no better off in that time frame as is the best outcome, they'll be at the bottom of a major seniority list and mostly all F/O's on junior equipment in the $40-60/hour range. Thus, the overwhelming majority of regional pilots are making as much or more now then they will for many, many years while this reality shakes itself out over the next 4-8 years. I don't believe the "pilot shortage" will help in achieving any real gains in pay or QOL enhancements, but shifts in labor allocation. My biggest hope now is to position myself to take advantage of overseas contract to cash out and get out. I don't see a single carrier as a career job anymore. |
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