Originally Posted by CR1979

Im sorry but Im a pilot and a HATE and Ill say again, I HATE UNIONS. They suck the F'n life out of every company. And if the truth is known, they are the reason the airlines are suffering so badly. But I must join it because I must and will keep my mouth shut about them while in the cockpit.

Originally Posted by btwissel

yes, because management of airlines are such sterling performers.

like taking your$1bn profit and trying to buy an airline that's $500m in the hole (and a direct competitor to boot) and then giving up after blowing through that profit.

or letting a regional strong-arm you into buying them, just in time to suffer from them striking.

by the way, unions have brought you:

weekends
safe working conditions
40hr work weeks
overtime pay
health care
a standard of service/product
a decent living


there are reasons that the middle class started to appear in the late 1800s. unions arose that started taking care of their own and keeping the bosses from using them just like any other maching in the shop.

Originally Posted by ghilis101

people are really missing the point about what a union does for us. the problems are not caused by unions, the problems are caused by lack of unity across unions. since each union for each airline has slightly different goals, you have unequal effects. dont blame unions, you need the piece of mind and protection, trust me.

Originally Posted by STR8NLVL

Let me say that as someone with a degree in Economics and a strong business background, that I USED to agree with your sentiments. I have always felt that unions simply served to protect the lazy and incompetent. My perception was that all the unions did was drive up labor costs and make it impossible to navigate the stringent rules when someone truly deserved to be fired/reprimanded.

That USED to be my stance. Now, as a pilot for a non-union regional. I have to say that if we had a union vote, I'd probably vote in favor of the union.

Being at a non-union carrier, let me tell you the differences that I notice from my friends at union shops:

1) we are regularly scheduled for stand-up overnights, flying home on less than 4 hours of sleep.

2) We aren't paid per diem for those overnights, even though we still spend the night and have to come up with food out of our pockets.

3) 10 leg 14 hour duty days with 15 minute turns ALL DAY with no scheduled breaks (When are you supposed to eat or use the restroom? Food and anything other than water in the cockpit is against co. policy).

4) Our pay is significantly less than union carriers flying the same equipment.

5) No professional standards committee to go to if you're put in the cockpit with someone who blatantly violates co. rules or even the FARS. Try reporting them and sometimes you're rewarded by nothing happening to them and it being publicly known that you're the "snitch." Imagine what the does for your life in the crew room and you'll understand why NOONE ever reports anything for fear of reprisal.

6) Captains being told to fly airplanes with issues they don't feel comfortable flying and threatened with their job if they refuse with no union lawyers or rules to protect them. Let something go wrong on that same flight and the FAA will have no sympathy on that captain for his flying anyway under duress. Yet, how many of you are willing to quit your job in such a situation?

I could go on, but let's just say that the work rules and safety suffer at an airline without union protection behind the pilots. I'm not a union fan in all jobs/circumstances, but I can say without a doubt that I can see the value that they provide for safety in the airline environment. Pay is one thing. We all know what we're getting paid at an airline before we start and can make a decision whether or not to work for said pay. But the added safety and the protection you get from being wrongfully terminated for making a stance on safety issues are extremely valuable assets that you receive in exchange for your union dues.

JM2CW,
Str8nlvl

Originally Posted by Ellen

Those wishing for a union at SKYW should be happy that they don't have to deal with the problems you do. Sorry that you have to go throuh this. At least SKYW has a bit of professional attitude.