Wasn't meant to be condescending.

As regional FO you're at the bottom. $80k is pretty reasonable to expect in the next few years for most if them. That's enough to hold you over a bit and is better than pushing a broom.

This is a thread drift, so ill leave with one last point. If (big if) you think,for example, going from $80k/$35k CA/FO to $70k/$30k would keep you off the street is weakness, then you better grow a big brass pair when you get into the real world and look for work.

Just leave the industry if the grass is greener on the other side of your fence. For everybody who thinks shutting this place down will change the regional industry you are wrong.

I propose that all the pilots who work at a substandard regional airline just quit. Do it for us, make your own point lose your job that would help us. But nobody will do that. Pilots working at those places put us in this position. We raised the bar you guys lowered it, and now you want us to fall on the sword.

The regional have changed for a long time. Gone are the days of staying at a regional for life. Closing the doors will do nothing unless all the bottom feeder regional pilots have the balls just to quit.

I talked to my rep and suggest all 9E pilots call them if they have questions the e-mails don't answer. It's a bad situation but one I believe we will get through with deep cuts. We will fight another day when the industry changes again. In closing if you are a pilot working at a bottom feeder regional look in the mirror and ask yourself have you helped the industry or hurt by taking a job where ever you work.

Since when did 9E raise any bars? It was once a bottom feeder at one point too. Getting one industry average contract ( maybe slighty above average) does not mean raising the bar.

Take a look at our current contract and compare it to other regionals. We didn't lower the bar with our pay rates and work rules.

So I guess voting down TA1 doesn't mean anything? We tossed it out and waited for a better one.

Every regional was a bottom feeder st some point. It goes in cycles. Even express jet aka coex.

Exactly my point.... Just because one gets a good contract doesnt mean they raised any bars or make people forget they were once a bottom feeder.

So, the only group that you consider able to raise the bar had an industry leading contract at conception and has maintained it ever since? Just out of curiosity, what company is that?

I'm really trying to understand your logic, but for the life of me, I can't.

The idea is that one group gets a good contract! Then another group points to that contract as leverage for a better contract. Then repeat with the next group. We all have to try to build off each other.

Disregard, not worth it.


To Johnso: Yes I am well aware of that

That only works for mainline, in the regional business it's kill or be killed.

............

Actully I have to disagree, most companies do take care of there employees, especially if they are needed. This industry is no the norm. Yes there are a few others (companies)that do the same but most give some kind of a severance. Ready for unemployment, yes we should be and we should always have a backup.

It's a nice suburb of DTW. Met my wife there! :D

Do they? I know an individual who works for Verizon. His position was being eliminated, but he was offered a higher paying position on the condition he would move. He said he could not move because he couldn't sell his house. They said no problem, we'll buy it for you. They offered around $50K less then the mortgage payoff. So unless he went upside down on his house, he was out of a job. No severance, no sorry. Nothing.

My mother works in our local school district. The district superintendent couldn't get taxes raised, nor could he get schoolworkers to bite on concessions. So he just laid off 20 people. They get nothing. The superintendent does however get another secretary, & he's not taking a paycut. The list goes on.

9E is finished, I actually thought that it wouldn't last until the end of the year. I guess I am happy for the extra time. I am resigned to that fact and no, I don't hold I'll will towards the DAL pilot group. My wife told me to always look on the bright side of things which I am finally doing. We might be in for some hard times but with a positive attitude and hard work I think the future is still bright. I have worked with some great people here and I wish everyone good luck in the post Pinnacle world.

I just thought we all needed a little positivity here.

Good attitude to have. It sucks right now and everyone at Pinnacle has a right to be angry, but one door closes, another door opens. Dust yourself off and get back on the horse. There is going to be alot of movement over the next few years.

Here's the entire GoJet pilot group at the moment

http://i.imgur.com/4TTVa.gif

Was Pinnacle any different when 129 CRJ-200s were awarded in the 2000-2001 era and mainline NWA DC9s and 727s were parked?

I still can't understand one regional pilot trying to talk smack down on another regional airline. Their airline hasn't done anything your airline didn't do already, which is fly outsourced routes at a cheaper cost. In any case, GoJets pilots today consist of furloughee United pilots, and tons of other regional airline pilots, including Comair. Go tell a 10 year Comair FO at GoJets that he is rubbing his hands in glee at the 9E announcements.

One word....Comair......good luck boys and girls.

Hi. Have you heard of the 20,000 man race to 1000tpic?

You may not think it is important, i would agree, but the race is real and is what drives the current regional industry. Pattern bargaining cannot exist at our level, but i guess that is just like my opinion, man.

Fair point. Fair point indeed.

G*J!#*s may pick up more airframes, but I honestly think they will have a hard time staffing them. Even the "preferred" regionals are struggling to fill classes right now. Some are even offering $5,000 for your signature.

If you had your 1,500 hours and a clean record, why in the world would you "GO" there?

quick upgrade, i hear it happens while in initial indoc, who cares if you dont make much money! SJS and the chase man! Industry standards....piff who cares about QOL, million man race to 1,000 TPIC (while living in the ghetto eating ramen noodles while trying not to get fired...)

Their upgrade minimums require 4000 TT. That was why they are hiring captains off the street because their FOs do not meet that time.

Going to gojet?


http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1875...f/original.gif

I'm sure at the job fairs they are feeding guys the 'you'll guarantee to upgrade quicker' line. Besides, aren't their jets so shiny!

Aren't most of them ex Comair birds? If so they aren't very shiny anymore.

The whole DCI fleet at GoJet is ex-Comair airplanes, some of them did a stint at ASA after Comair. A good chunk of the pilot group is ex-Comair as well, SJS died a lonnggg time ago for us.

I love the we will fight another day when the industry changes again comment. When indiustry was changed you were in section 6 for a looooong time; only to get a ta when industry changed again. You have the record on the longest negotistions in the regional world. I just your concessions come with some cola after your concessionary contract becomes amedable another 9 years.

Also, i know this is going to sound harsh but your airlines grew in expense of the other airlines likr mesaba aca comair. I love it when you think you raised the bar.

But honestly, isn't all growth at someone's expense?

Not is it's true growth. If it's a shuffling of airplanes, then yes, it's at someone's expense. The only planes 9E has seen in the past 7+ years either came from the desert (only to go to Mesaba a couple of months later because we wouldn't sign a crappy contract) or off the assembly line. Looks like all of those are going to either go back to the desert or Skywest/ASA and an airline-to-be-names-later.

Okay, there were the 2 ex-Comair planes we leased while we were getting our -200s painted by that crap paint shop down in Greenville, MS.....

Fundamentally, all growth at the Regional level is either at the expense of mainline or another Regional.

Not true.

There are many communities that welcome new service. What better way to test the water then with a regional jet.

Most of the waters have already been tested. Way more communities are losing service and not gaining it. I could rattle off a few dozen cities in the midwest that no longer have puddle jumper service. None come to mind that have new service.

Truth.

October 2002:
http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/...hwestfleet.jpg

November 2000:
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/uf/4803/phpv0mBeB.jpeg

Oh wow, nice find! That's amazing and sad to see.

Confused
 

80Ktsclamp,

What were you trying to show with your graphics there? The mainline and regional fleet both grew. Some saabs got traded in for CRJ's. What's the point?

ShyGuy, what is sad to see about the graphics?

Around 150 DC9-10/30/40/50's gone. 727's gone. No mainline replacement. 36 AVROs has grown to 153 76 seaters & 102 65 seaters. Well over 300 50 seat RJs. See the sadness now? ;)

Couldn't agree more. That is very sad. I wish regionals were still regionals. Small props flying from a small city that can't support mainline aircraft to a large hub where they connect with mainline. Now we have regional aircraft flying between hubs that are three hours apart. It's crazy. I thought 80ktsclamp was trying to make a comparison between Nov. 2000 and Oct. 2002 because of the way he/she posted both of them together. That was what I was asking about.