Airline Pilot Central Forums - The cost of work

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Originally Posted by BenS (Post 1314479)

Wow, well, talk about giving capitalism a slap in the face...

How about an iron first mauling in the face. Most Americans are conditioned to believe that capitalism is righteous and better than anything else out there.... which is far from the truth. Capitalism sells lies, makes it worse, then sells the cure...

If the last 5 years has not been an indictment on Capitalism, and with a cyclical understanding of American History with the same conditions every 80 years, then what else does one need to know that the current form of Capitalism is a farce.

Capitalism isn't even capitalism.

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If it bothers you that it costs money to go to work and make money, then quit spending the money to go to work.. you'll find really fast that we earn much more than it costs us to go make it. An investor can invest millions and may win or lose it all, you have to spend $150 a month to get to work to make whatever wage you will make, sounds like a decent investment to me. Beats not going to work and not making anything at all.

I didn't question the cost of going to work or even the cost of being qualified to work. Rather I stated instead of concerning ones self with such cost, rather the real issue is how much less we actually receive for the amount of value created. I believe capitalism generally takes 50% or more of someone's work value.

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Did the CEO (and executive board) earn the percentage he took from your labor? Well, lets see, the executive board in aviation must negotiate airplane leases/ purchases, must negotiate purchase of other equipment. They must also set a ticket price that will allow them to fill the planes but also make enough to pay you and other costs. They are also responsible for advertising the company, setting route structure and changing the direction of the company in an ever changing market. Frankly, if there was no CEO who took nothing from your labor, there would be no labor for you to earn anything from. Do executives take more than they are owed? Perhaps thats up for debate, but are executives owed some share from my labor? Yes, I do believe so.

You have started with the premise that CEO's and the exec team by default already control the terms. Which they do, but I am raising the question why..... radical perhaps, but why do we just assume it has always been this way or should be this way?

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Should you, at a minimum, be allowed to determine the terms your labor is used? Thats called "right to work". In a union world, your work contract is negotiated between the company and your union. In the non-union world, your worth is set in part by your demands and in part by the market forces that determine your worth.

Even slaves have a right to quit? In a historical context, I thought slaves were property that was owned and traded, and refusal to work was punishable by death? But yea, I suppose today they'd have a right to quit, but that goes along with right to work laws.

Disagree. Right to work means you do not determine the terms... you are simply a wage slave. The choice is quit or continue to work. If you quit (or flee), like a 19th Century plantation slave, there are consequences albeit much different. But those are the only two choices. Your worth is determined by what management decides to pay you within the realm of supply and demand. Unions get wages on the high side. Right to work... on the low side of supply and demand.

But even with union labor... a person doesn't truly own their work. Lack of ownership is lack of control....

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So if not capitalsim, what system do you propose better for the people?

At my last job, at the end of the FY, workers would be shuffled from one govt contractor to the next, resetting their longevity, losing earned vacation, sick, etc. They'd walk the halls, totally screwed, yet muttering "I am just happy to have a job....." Perverted in a way actually... they have no control... either accept new terms or quit. No determining the terms.

Propose a system in which people determine the terms in which they live their lives, including the work place, not a political or economic elite. Not sure that has ever been done and perhaps too utopic. However, nothing wrong with calling BS on the status quo.......

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Originally Posted by DryMotorBoatin (Post 1314511)

Settle down Marx.

just keep showing up for work.... one day, if you're lucky... you'll be a millionaire just like them.... arbeit macht frei........ then again... you can just quit if you want.....

Wow, seems as if we have a socialist in our midst. I suggest you leave, you are not wanted here.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FTmu6jAwA8...E_FOR_THAT.gif

Can't believe nobody has posted this yet...

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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1313962)

You totally buff?

http://www.driven2divide.com/wp-cont...cartoon_t.jpeg

BEEFCAKE!!!

Haha nope, not buff, but lean and muscular. Unlike most people I fly with that are fat and believe they can shove anything and everything into their bodies with no adverse consequences.

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Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine (Post 1313709)

I got curious so I did a breakdown of the direct cost of my job. I live in base and I am on reserve.

Here is the breakdown.

Average days at home (H): 16.8 per month
Average days at work (W): 13.2 per month
Average time I get activated (A): 6 times a month
Round trip cost to go to work (C): $16.50
Amount I tip van driver (T): $1.00 per ride
Average uniform upkeep (U): $5.00 per trip
Average amount I spend on food at home (FH): $300.00 per month
Average amount of food I spend for work (FW): $250.00 per month

The formula:

(A x C)+(A x U)+((((W/A)-1) x (2 x T)) x A)+(FW – ((FH/H)) x w)) = The cost of work

For me that comes out to $158.00 a month

I use public transportation to go to work and try to spend as little as possible on the road so I bring most of my food.

How much do you spend to work? If you have crash pad, simply add your crashpad rent.

Next time you get curious go check out a brothel or something. Your killing me Rain man.

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Originally Posted by Snarge (Post 1314064)

No, I just think my labor and it's worth should be owned by me. And a percentage of it not go to others who have not earned it. So the next question, did the CEO earn the percentage he took from my labor?

Or said differently, should I be able to, at a minimum, determine the terms in which my labor is used in exchange for value?

Even slaves have the choice to quit.

No offense but you have made a grave intellectual error. Slaves DO NOT have the choice to quit. This is entirely what being a slave means.

If you engauge in a voluntary exchange of your labour with your "CEO" your "CEO" can keep whatever he wants. That is because he has a higher risk value than you have, he is your boss. That is why he is the CEO and you are the employee. If you decide that is unfair and you are not getting paid enough than quit. Because you are not a slave means that you can do so and go find employment somewhere else.

Or take a risk and start your own business and be the CEO.

The limitation on how much or little you can pay your employees is dictated by competition in the labor workforce for wages. Employees drive prices up and bosses drive them down. In a free society with a limited government both are winners in their own ways dictated by their risk/reward ratio they CHOOSE to have.

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Originally Posted by Denver (Post 1314601)

No offense but you have made a grave intellectual error. Slaves DO NOT have the choice to quit. This is entirely what being a slave means.

Of course they can quit. Many did by fleeing... Underground Railroad, etc.... Slave means you receive no compensation for work and you are bonded. There are always choices in life.

That is why the term wage slave hits home. Like a slave, we are wage slaves in that we can quit working but the consequences are worse. Yet the status quo is still bad.

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If you engauge in a voluntary exchange of your labour with your "CEO" your "CEO" can keep whatever he wants. That is because he has a higher risk value than you have, he is your boss. That is why he is the CEO and you are the employee. If you decide that is unfair and you are not getting paid enough than quit. Because you are not a slave means that you can do so and go find employment somewhere else.

There is no reason why CEO and worker cannot share the risk and reward. Except for greed maybe... That is the premise of my discussion.

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Or take a risk and start your own business and be the CEO.

Not everyone can be, wants to be or should be a CEO.... Some people want to work 40h and spend time elsewhere. They should be able to do that while determining the terms....

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The limitation on how much or little you can pay your employees is dictated by competition in the labor workforce for wages. Employees drive prices up and bosses drive them down. In a free society with a limited government both are winners in their own ways dictated by their risk/reward ratio they CHOOSE to have.

By law CEO's and their BODs are beholden only to shareholders. That is why we see such disregard for workers, communities and environment.... however, if the law obligated a CEO to stakeholders... there might not be as much profit or excessive wealth for CEOs, but the Nation would be a better place.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by DryMotorBoatin (Post 1314511)

Settle down Marx.

I believe the correct quote is "Lighten up, Marx"

http://firedaily.com/files/2012/01/l...up-francis.jpg